Twinreaper

Yes I feel your pain in regards to the power weapons and limited amount of clip when picking up a weapon. I wish I could explain their reason to do this, but I cannot find any good reason they put out or could come up with on my own. It seems to a certain degree that perhaps they did this to include players in a more "Emphasis on Teamwork" environment...except that it failed and they have yet to return it to it's former status. Teamwork only really works when you have a good players who actually use a mic or the Kinect mic ability. Teamwork in Halo does not work when you get paired with players whom you do not know. If it's friends you game with or even certain players you have played with many times....it comes down to being able to read eachother's movements and that works just fine....but you cant go and change things like Three said...without there being negative effects. I myself am a semi-casual gamer. I say semi-casual only because I play less than even a casual guy at this point in my life. Bloom and map issues for me never really occured only because I never had the chance or time to really delve into Reach all that much. Usually when I do get the chance to play, I play campaign or Firefight only because of the lag and pairing of players that I get. I like fighting AI more than I do real people. it gives me a better chance to actually do something rather than be a punching bag. I am sure that if I had spent more time playing Reach, that I may have the same issues with as you Three, but I do not. I do respect everything you say on the topic and I ma glad that we can walk away in the end and agree to disagree respectively.

Actually the controls would be exactly the same. Use a 360 controller instead of kb/m. As for the upgrade versus 360 version of Halo 4..... any current gen PC with at least a quad-core running at minimum 3.7ghz and about 6 gig of ram, and at least a Readeon 6460 / Geforce 9800GT could easily blow away the 360 performance of even Halo 4. The hardware inside the 360 is only a 3-core processor and an old model one at that. Most new out-of-box PC's you find on the market out perform the console. Besides...upgrading a PC to meet newer hardware requirements is a much better option than constantly shifting around from console to console just in hopes it has backwards compatability. With a console, you get what you get and thats all there is too it. Even with fancy dashboards, gaming is all it is good for. The PC on the other hand.....well thats self explanitory.

and smother peanut butter goodness

Ah Twam and I go way back. Twam may not remember the good old halo 2 and Halo halomod days we enjoyed together....but I remember them like they were yesterday. Praise be to Twam... :unworthy:

It seems I struck a nerve with the guys around here with my post...why I am not suprised. You can bash me and my post all you want, but in the end, it is all fact based. You have nothing to argue because you cannot properly counter anything I said. I have no quam with you personally, just some of the things I have found floating around the thread. I am sorry if you took it personally. I do not live here on a high horse. Fact is, I am a well respected and long time member of this community and Halo in general. I come in here to educate people on things they get wrong and help people out when they need it. You can clearly see this if you look around at my favor rating and the many helpful posts I have made. I conscider this nothing more than just a heated and well argued debate and nothing more. But if you wish to keep bashing on me or whatever, then hey more power to you, and enjoy. I won't stop you or bother you guys again. But in the off chance you ever need help understanding anything mechanic or engine code wise, please feel free to hit me up anytime.

As I have illustrated numerous tiimes, there is a fine line between Zb and bloom. First off, I respect your competative standpoint. Second, there has never been any type of weapon outside the sniper rifle, that had zero bloom. Zero Bloom gametype in halo is the odd man out on that one. TU Reach is the first Halo title to date, to take away all error from a weapon period. In all the games I spent playing in halo 1, 2 and 3 noone ever complained about the BR or magnum firing spread...which is exactly or if not more, than the DMR's according to actual data pulled from the tag itself. I think it is more of a case of players not being able to shake the retracting and expanding reticule more than the spread itself. The reticule is not perfect and does not always show you the correct radius to expect shots in. I have always ignored it and played like it wasn't there.

First off I would just like to say that the title for the thread is ridiculous! In order for Bungie to have ruined Multiplayer in Reach, they would have had to let down or completely throw out the window, anything they showed or released prior to the game release. from the beginning every player knew what Reach was going to be...so stop crying about that one! I understand how your competative nature would lead you to this assumption, but you are wrong. Playing a game that invloves many different aspects and available play styles, only neccessatates your need to have a higher skill level in order to dominate the competition. Calling Loadouts classes is not right either. Classes implies that you are limited to it, by rank or selection. Loadouts are not restrictive and can be changed out upon respawn. Armor abilities did not hurt reach. Perhaps before you start to blame game mechanics for a games failing populations, you should do your homework first. Halo 3 has overhyped and flawed, yet it did fairly well for quite a while. It did not do well because they got things "right" as you would say, but because at the time Halo 3 released, it had no competition to detract players from it. Go ahead and look at the lineup of titles coming out around the same time or shortly after it....there is not one title in there that had anything worth playing over Halo 3. With Reach, we had Crysis 2, Battlefield 3, Modern Warfare 3 just to name a few. All these games hurt Reach very much. That my friend is a fact, not an opinion. I get where you are going with this, but your basis for this is soley your opinion based on YOUR experience. My experience is quite the opposite. In Halo 3 I owned easily with the BR alone and a good old fashion SMG/PRifle combo. In Reach, I get owned constantly. My skill level in reach compared to H3 sucks. I just didn't have the ability to evolve my skill to adapt to Reach's gameplay. Does that make Reach less skilled than H3? No it doesn't. It simply means that I am less skilled in Reach due to my own shortcomings. It's all a matter or personal preferrence and experience. First off, your rank or multiple accounts with rank do not dictate anything you say to be fact at all. get off your high fricken horse with that noise. Second, there was no devaluing of skill in Reach. If you suck under certain circumstances or situations that is your own fault and shortcoming for not being able to adapt properly to a new set of MM guidelines and mechanics. Quit rage crying about something you can't overcome, and stop blaming the devs for it. Third, how ridiculous is your bloom comment. Example time!! Halo 1 had the magnum. The magnum under constant fire would spread shots like a shotgun all over the place. Fact!!! The magnum in Halo 1 is the only weapon to date to have it's firing spread extend past the reticule in which the shots are supposed to be contained to. In my 10 years of playing Halo Combat Evolved, I have never once heard anyone ***** or moan about the bloom on the pistol. And to date, everyone hands down still says Halo 1 is the King of them All!!! Well, you see where this is going......get off the whole bloom thing and just accept that it is there and has always been there. And before you try to start going off about how it's different...IT IS NOT!!! I have explained all this before in great detail with pulled data values from the weapons in every Halo title for everyone to see. As for the comments about AA's...get over it. You know damn well that people have loadouts and every time you engage someone, you take the chance of having it turned back on you. Where is all this skill you supposedly have then? Obviously it isn't in MM going against players with base loadouts. Aside from this, I saw some ridiculous comment somewhere about someone being on the ground and someone else being 25 feet in the air. What a horrible way to describe the advantage you think the AA's give you. Apply this logic to your theory my friends...... If the person above you is 25 feet up in the air, how does he have the advantage in a whole of the situations. His perspective is skewed by his distance and vantage point, making him vulnerable to teammates of yours, and vulnerable due to his lack of perspective on you. When he finally comes down upon you, you could be holding a sword for all he knows, or even maybe a shotgun, or even have armor lock or etc.... you see where I am going with this. Having skill means you can adapt and adjust to any situation using a wide variety of tactics, weapons and natural environment to combat an enemy and achieve victory. From what I see around here...there is obviously a great deal of skill lacking by the way you all try to pass off the game as the reason why you suck or why things are unfair in the end.

just a heads up.to everyone.....ill be posting some things up to.counter the rather ridiculous comments I saw when browsing mobile at work. Look for the post later.

correct about the engine above poster......to an extent. Base mechanic values are pre.defined in the engine.code as.well.as the Havok handling code. What they can and most likely will do, is edit the matg and.biped tags to closely ressemble what we had in Halo 3.

From what get from his post he is saying that the enemy sniper is behind cover and was able to shoot him from that cover. the projectiles fire from tje camera and not weapon origin which calls in to.question for me...... did the enemy use a wall glitch to shoot him or possibly a wall hack.

To an.extent everything they state is already concrete. The engine is finalized as well.as the physics, collision and tag handling. As far as polish...the only thing they can tweak is individual tags...which wont help mich seeing as they are tied to engine constraints at this point. Anything showed off physics or graphics or even handling wise in the reveal is solidified content....hence why they showed it.

That is exactly how it works. The weapon tag dictates a specific change in error with every trigger pull in such a mount of time. More so, the tag also tells you in which vector the projectile will go in accordance with every change. The reticule never expands at close range beyond the head of the enemy player. If you are at a close to almost mid-range, there is no reason to miss with bloom or without as long as you stay on target or outthink your opponent.

So let me get this straight.... In standard Reach you fail. basically stating that what skill you do have, suffers from "luck", or "random" events that are calculated to work against you, and in TU, there are no random events or calculations that effect you and your true skill shows through? Humor me..... show me exactly the constraints and calculated field data in the weapon tag that dictates the random placement of what you call "luck shots". There is no luck in a game. A game by design, it written out and can on;y operate in a manner and to an extent in which the program is designed. Everything about a game is calculated precisly and layed out. Luck and random, indictaes forced beyond control or any seeable force. neither of things is present ina game. If some guy spams you at close range and takes you out with a head shot...thats your fault. You could have done the same thing or strafed better. Yet again another example of how everyones bad game play is someone elses fault or the game sfault. Doesn't anyone ever take responsability for these things themselves? You will never see me cry about how bloom makes me suck. I suck at MM all the time. Do I suck because of the emchanics...no. I suck because I fail to outthink, out maneuver my opponents and I always fail at knowing which is a great spot to control on the map. Anything that happens in game, outside a power outage or lag...is 100% on the individual player and not the mechanics.

My concerns may be over reacting yes, but remember, this is the footage they decided to rleease and the words that went into it during the video were carefully crafted and chosen to make the cut. I know that many things may get changed, even textures and possibly speeds at which players move etc... but there are core things that cannot be changed that I have pointed out. I've watched many VidOC's and spent countless years in development of Halo related assets and I know what I see on screen and know how to translate it back into a wip, or real time asset. My main quams are with the speeds at which the players are moving. From what i can calculate, the players in the footage are movign at 1.5 (halo 2) setting speed. Meaning they increased the speed relative to around .5% Not a big deal at all, but for me that is way to big a jump in relative movement speed. The graphics are a big issue with me. Now I don't usually take issue with it at all because i believe in quality of gameplay over quality of visuals. But in this case, seeing as how dated the games tend to look compared to engines twice their age...I have a big problem with that. The hardware of the 360 is not what is keeping the footage from h4 looking great, it is the engine itself, the post-processessing and compression quality. Fact is, UEK and Cryengine 2 both beat Blam! hands down any day in terms of handling and processessing on the 360. Crysis 2 came out in march 2011. Thats almost a good solid 2 years of development prior. Halo 4 is slated to come out in 2012 Holiday season. it has been talked to be in development since 2009 at it's earliest. Halo 4's version of Blam! should at this point in it's development cycle and maturity, at least be able to surpass lighting, shaders, particle effects etc, of at least UEK and Cry2. What I see in the video is nothing more than something a little below the UEK and Cry2 standard that you can see today. I'm not saying that the game doesn't look great...because it does. it looks a millio times better than Reach graphically, but from a hobbiest dev standpoint the engines graphical layer doesn't make the cut compared to others older than it. That's all I am saying. Again, I think the game does look great, but because the GL is a core engine code part, it will not be changed and cannot be changed. Now yes it may simply be an issue with shader settings or bitmap compression, but we will have to wait to see. When I talk about animations, I am referring to the same old cut and paste "stick up your ass" positions that seem to follow every title. Animations to me, should evolve along with the title and characters as they progress along the timeline of games. Jumping, running, croutching etc... have all been the same old animations time and time again. When a Spartan is running, I would like to see the aniamtion show him/her running with the gun lowered. It's very easy to have the animation snap to the firing aniamtion when you actually pull the trigger. Jumping is another one. Besides the feet and legs...nothing moves. How about we have them raise their arms up over their head or kinda peddle their arms like someone actually would look like jumping? Give it a fresh feel for christs sake. Overall I am not impressed enough by the teaser or released information thus far to make me want to commit to putting out $60+ for a title in this economy. Again, this is only a first look and many more things may come to light, but the longer 343i waits, and the more they stay tight lipped on important things, the more they push players away into looking at other new titles coming out around the same time.

I care nothing for your dedication to a fractured and poor country like the US. Just because you served doesnt equal anything. my great grandfather, grandfather and Uncle all have served the german military. This isn't about your ego or "your" miltary awareness or experience. This is about how people interpret poorly, what they see on screen in Halo and the age old tired debate of bloom, what it is in all actuality, and how lag plays the biggest part in the game in Reach, more than the previous titles. I knew some of you would get offended by my words, but that's not my concern. My concern is trying to educate people on the game mechanics and how they work based on actual decompressed and decrypted engine data...not what you see on screen due to many varying factors that effect gameplay.

Surfice to say it left me on the fence. I will not bother to explain it further. I need to see more to make a solid opinion.

Not one single one of you have any idea of how "error angles" work. IT IS NOT CALLED BLOOM!!! It is called "error angles" and they are clearly defined in the weapon tag. Error angles ahve been in every Halo game since 1. Reach was the first to make use an expanding reticule to show players on the HUD, where their shots were limited to in terms of error. Now on to the important one, anytime you have adverse effects or any other mechanic that inhibits your aim, response time or even pace.....the player has to be skilled in order to cope or overcome these challenges. "Zero Bloom" gametypes mimic no other Halo game at all. There is not one weapon in the entire eries that ahd anything close to a setting of "0" for the error angles. That is a fact. Removing bloom makes it so that simply the first person to shoot will win. No deviation in firing...like the BR or magnum. Just a simple shot hitting the same exact spot everytime with no decreased firing speed or ejection recovery time. As I said, saying ZB takes more skill with DMR's and the magnum...is equivilant to saying that no error with a BR would take more skill than opposed to it's default settings. As for you MLG losers...your all mostly basement dwellers with no real world experience or usable skills so you hopelessly flock to MLG hoping that something you do in life will impress someone. Look mom, I can use my thumbs!!! Being in MLG is not cool, a usable talent nor does it have any real world benefits. Even if you did manage to get signed...big deal. You get maybe 2 years worth of my current salary...and when it ends, your back at your moms house eating hotpockets for the next 50 years. Next time your uyp for that huge General/Project manager job...be sure to tell them how you went 30-0 ina slayer match or some ****...I'm sure that will land you the promotion. Do me a favor, keep your lame ass MLG talk out of it...that was not the point. The point was, how full bloom take more skill than 0 bloom.

After just watching the video about halo 4, I have some very dissapointed feelings and am very worried about the future of the franchise and it's development team. As with standard format and tradition I will limit my rant to numbered order of things, and as time allows, I willa nswer for my griefs in more detail as needed... 1. Engine (core settings) The graphics are not anything as I imagined. fact is, they barely look any different from what you can find in UEK or Cryengine, under the hand sof a good SDK user. All this time, and the Blam! engine just now comes to almost a par level with 2 to 3 year old engines? Yeah, way to suck Wolfkill and Yu. 2. Competative map designs. Frank never minces words, and he rarely ever says anything unless he has a conviction or the words have meaning. When they say "built for competative", it means just that. every map is thought out and planned with the competative game in mind. 3. Perks. They touched on the fact that certain types of "perks" would be available. Couple that with my #2 griope...and you have a MM that seems straight out designed for MLG and FFA/Arena style gameplay...leaving us casual and fun lovers at much of a dissadvantage. 4. Animations. Sorry, but I'm calling lazy or bull**** on this. The movement animations yes were touched up a bit, but the same old ones used series after series. Even the jump animation under closer look, had pretty much from what i could calculate, the same marker and node placement as Reach animations. even the in air postures were nearly identical. 5. Vehicles. The warthog model had 34 different part/model permutations. That's it? Really? You increased the amount of poly's and parts by 6?!?!?! I expect way more in terms of detail and permutations for a new engine and new trilogy...not a water downed lazy version. Hell i could go and add 23 new different parts to a warthog in halo2 easily.... 6. maps. Both maps look exaclty inspired by previous ones in the series...yet they have the balls to say they are all brand new made from scratch and not reused?!? 7. HUD. I have grown acustom to seeing my grenades on the left side of the screen. So why is now they have a 3 teir icon set for the grenades on the right. And yes...those are grenade placeholders. If you watch one of the HUD gameplay screens...you clearly see a plasma grenades occupying one of those places. 8. Player physics. The physics seem to be exactly what I would expect coming out of Reach into H4. The same physics system is in place. This is not good for players. The movement speed in Reach was to slow and the jump height/gravity increased too much. What we see now in H4 is too fast of movement....for the love og god...IS IT THAT HARD TO GET IT RIGHT?!?!? 9. Weapons. The dmr is coming back. Frank said it. He said the DMR is in, and also some other single shot weapons. What purpose does pitting a BR and a DMR in the same title serve? That would be including the bruste shot and grenade launcher together. 10. Spartan IV's. Ok I know this is gonna sound dumb, but I agree with however said the suits look like a nanosuit from Crysis. In fact, on the one level they showed, the giant mech being constructed looked like a giant tachikoma from GITS. I get MM being changed and blah blah blah...but really? We need Spartan IV player models with aweful looking armosa and a whole RvB backstory? My god...... Well there you have it. A good old fashioned 10 point reason why I will not be buying Halo 4, but instead renting it just to see and maybe finish the campaign.

Ranking systems don't make games competative. The individual player makes a game competative. There are many other great games out there that make better use of many different systems. We all love Halo, but don't go overboard and say it is more competative by nature, because it is not.

Now that I go back and read what I posted about the hunters...it just sounds wrong. I think I was typing to fast or didn't really re-read what I put. What I meant to say was that Hunters would be great additions to the flood, IF they were able to be infected or used in a way that provided the same combined armour form. What I also meant to say was, that there is not enough tissue mass or nutrients for them to be any use to the flood, outside feeding purposes. Good catch on that Kurt.

Still such a dumb ass. Just because you can see a car move or because you drive on, doesn't mean you know how it owrks. Get it *******? There are no factors beyond your control when playing with 100% "error Angles" in effect. The layout functions of the [weap] tag allow players to pace their shots in a way that control where their shots may land. I have yet to ever have a problem landing shots nor have I ever had what could be caled a lucky shot. Lag is another factor you failed to mention on this. Lag is not only highly visible in Reach, but in every Halo game. CoD has a much better netcode system as every match I have watched my son play, there is no vosoble lag. What data? Just because you had someones face in your sights, doesn't mean that both consoles or host, agrees that the enemy player was in your sights. again, it's netcode....and you can't see netcode, you have to decompress and decrypt engine data to get to it....again, you know jack ****. Playlists on 100% error settings will always require more skill than weapons with no error at all. How is conscidered skill, when the weapon has no deviation from it's aiming path, and fires quickly with the same damage modifier? So next your gonna tell me that in halo 2 and 3, it would take more skill to use the BR on ZB than at it's default settings? Get real kid, you obviously have a lot to learn about the Halo engine, it's settings, and how to differentiate what you see on screen versus the engine code and explinations for what you see. Just because you see it, doesn't make it true or right.

Yeah it helps a lot. It would suck to fire off a shotgun and have all the spread end up one one side or bypassing the target when aimjng....talk about raging on something like that! lmao

Boy.....Three Bad Boys sure do equal one idiotic post. You quite obviously have no working knowledge of the bloom mechanic as you call it. You really should have done search on the site for other bloom threads before trying to pass off your completely idiotic view on bloom or even calling it logical. There is nothing logical or even remotely data specific to backup anything you said. Just the simple.fact that you called it bloom and not "error angle" is proof of that. To make.my post shorter than it needs to be ....go search around for the other threads and find my relevant data in which i have posted about the subject.

The terms you are looking for are indeed "camera snap" and "3rd person camera". Unfortunatly taking the snap effect away from armor lock is not.possible. Armor lock forces and only includes a 3rd person pov when used. Inherently when in armor lock and coming out of it, your character faces which ever direction you have that camera pointing too. Unless there is some way to have Megal use a specific hook to override this, your stuck with it. I agree about the animation trigger during animations. You should have the optikn via a button, to stop the assassination animation to prevent mishaps such as accidental assassinations. Ibwas going to suggest hitting random buttons during the sequence...but I am sure people have already tried tbis before with no luck?

Not gonna happen. Obviously everyone just bypasses everything I ever say about Forge for some strange reason. Perhaps the truth is too painfull. verything you are asking for is impossible to do on the console with a game specifically like Halo. Skyboxes are predefined in the scenario tag, and must be edited with the inclusion of additional sky items. Altering the sky would not alter the lightmap, making it pointless to do so if you wanted to go from night to day.....the lighting would be the same. And ighting based on time of day, requires per-pixel realtime lighting. The only items that use such a system are stand alone light scenery items. Usually placing more than about 10 of these items causes lag in fp's and slows down or nullifies half of them rendering. Making terrain is impossible since the collision and phmo for the map is calculated and stored via bsp raw during level compiling. Unless they find a way to give you "sandbox" quality tools on a console, needing well over 6 gigs of RAM....which the 360 does not have...nor the processor horsepower (at least quad core at 3.7 ghz) PLANETARY TRAVEL IN A Halo game....via one map or layout?!? Are you mad or just dumb. BSP's are broken down into various standalone bsp's. Everytime you see a "loading done" text flash across your screen, you are entering and playing on a new bsp level inside the map. BSP's are connected by "trigger volumes", and you cannot see thru or past or even into another bsp section. Every bsp section is self contained and contains only that BSP's objects, spawns, etc... Having a Solar system to play in would be pointless since you would have to wait till enemies crossed over to the bsp you were in...again making it stupid becuase you would not see them coming. They would just magically appear next to you all the sudden. I applaud your creative thinking, but when it comes to wanting things in a Halo game, it is best to do your homework about the egnines to see what can and cannot be done. Or you could just ask me.