Plea to 343i to change elements seen in Halo 4 multiplayer.

[DeadlySniper19]

Why does everyone think that a ranking system where you rank up because you won and rank down because you lost is accurate? I've played against many people that only won because of one member of their team or because people on my team quit. How about this: You only rank up if you win and (in Slayer games at least) you get more kills than deaths. If you win and go negative then you would either rank down slightly or not change rank at all. This would be more accurate then a system that rewards people based solely on wins or losses because it would only reward people who helped their team. This wouldn't work in objective games,but it would work well in slayer games.

 

They can't base it on k/d because it will cause more abuse and exploitation than the typical 1-50 system ever would. There are a lot of factors that go into a game which effect the outcome. A quick example, I could be having a rough game but I got control of rockets hall for my team, picked them up, and that play got us slightly ahead and won us the game. I think that person derserves the win and rank up..... sure they had a rough start but they wound up winning their team the game. A ranking system based on win/loss encompases all the factors that go into the end outcome of the game which is why, while simple, it's probably one of the most accurate systems they could impliment.

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

They can't base it on k/d because it will cause more abuse and exploitation than the typical 1-50 system ever would. There are a lot of factors that go into a game which effect the outcome. A quick example, I could be having a rough game but I got control of rockets hall for my team, picked them up, and that play got us slightly ahead and won us the game. I think that person derserves the win and rank up..... sure they had a rough start but they wound up winning their team the game. A ranking system based on win/loss encompases all the factors that go into the end outcome of the game which is why, while simple, it's probably one of the most accurate systems they could impliment.

If someone playing a Slayer gametype gets more deaths than kills, then they did not help their team and do not deserve to rank up. Perhaps there could be a vote after a game where people could select a player that went negative but still deserves to rank up. Also, please explain to me how the system I described would be more abused than the 1-50 system, which I believe that they confirmed not to be used in Halo 4.

[Mr Biggles]

A ranking system based on win/loss encompases all the factors that go into the end outcome of the game which is why, while simple, it's probably one of the most accurate systems they could impliment.

 

 

 

Starcraft 2 > That System.

[DeadlySniper19]

If someone playing a Slayer gametype gets more deaths than kills, then they did not help their team and do not deserve to rank up. Perhaps there could be a vote after a game where people could select a player that went negative but still deserves to rank up. Also, please explain to me how the system I described would be more abused than the 1-50 system, which I believe that they confirmed not to be used in Halo 4.

 

Example: You're playing on standoff and there's a guy willing to sacrafise his k/d and put out poor stats to help the team overall, by being the warthog driver every time. Sure he goes negative.... but he also enabled his team to win. I can list more examples but overall saying that people that go negative didn't help their team just really isn't true.

 

As for how the system could and would be abused. Since it's based on kd, people would play much more passively, not wanting to ever die knowing it would effect their rating. So you have these camping scrubs putting up high k/d's and beating the system to achieve a good rating, whereas what would be more representative of skill is if they played as a team and won games because of it. We've already seen this happen in Arena and by causing people to obsess over their stats means that the gameplay is much more slow because as I said, no one wants to die and lower their rating.

 

I've seen this request in many other games such as league of legends for example, and the developers always come to the conclusion that abuse and system manipulation will become an issue and it will negatively impact gameplay and the flow of the game.

[Did4ct]

**I appreciate the evolution of gameplay but there NEEDS to be gametypes that play like classic Halo. The game looks WAY to much like Call of Duty with 'perks', specialized loadouts acquired by rank, grenade indicators, universal sprint, instant respawns, 'skins' for guns, and maybe this is not in all gametypes but the call-in-ordinances greatly resemble killstreaks. I understand that it needs to appeal to the masses and copy Call of Duty but there HAS to be a gametype for people that like actual HALO somewhere in there.

[Tomakazi]

They're not going to change it drastically. It's sad, but Halo is going down the tubes. We are losing all originality of what made Halo so great, and now theyre transforming it into a futuristic-style of Call of Duty. It's pathetic.

[DerpWithAGun]

Okay, let's forget about the weapons damage and stuff right now. Let's look at the perks. A new addition to the Halo sandbox. I mentioned 3 in the OP. Firepower, Grenadier and Unlimited Sprint. Those 3 were in the E3 build and are most definitely going to be in the final game. These 3 perks unbalance the game so much that it isn't funny. Firepower, 2 primary weapons. Really? Grenadier allows you to pick up grenades off dead bodies because you can't do that normally now. That slows down gameplay and makes gameplay boring. And Infinite sprint. pretty much self explanatory. Let's pick infinite sprint so I can run away from people.

 

On a side note, would people be happier and stop complaining if I changed the OP and have it as a requests to 343i to split the multiplayer in 2 with a competitive playlist and normal playlist? This thread would be about what we want in it the split playlist.

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

Example: You're playing on standoff and there's a guy willing to sacrafise his k/d and put out poor stats to help the team overall, by being the warthog driver every time. Sure he goes negative.... but he also enabled his team to win. I can list more examples but overall saying that people that go negative didn't help their team just really isn't true.

 

As for how the system could and would be abused. Since it's based on kd, people would play much more passively, not wanting to ever die knowing it would effect their rating. So you have these camping scrubs putting up high k/d's and beating the system to achieve a good rating, whereas what would be more representative of skill is if they played as a team and won games because of it. We've already seen this happen in Arena and by causing people to obsess over their stats means that the gameplay is much more slow because as I said, no one wants to die and lower their rating.

 

I've seen this request in many other games such as league of legends for example, and the developers always come to the conclusion that abuse and system manipulation will become an issue and it will negatively impact gameplay and the flow of the game.

Alright, you've convinced me.

 

**I appreciate the evolution of gameplay but there NEEDS to be gametypes that play like classic Halo. The game looks WAY to much like Call of Duty with 'perks', specialized loadouts acquired by rank, grenade indicators, universal sprint, instant respawns, 'skins' for guns, and maybe this is not in all gametypes but the call-in-ordinances greatly resemble killstreaks. I understand that it needs to appeal to the masses and copy Call of Duty but there HAS to be a gametype for people that like actual HALO somewhere in there.

I'm not sure that a classic playlist and a normal playlist is a good idea. It would confuse new players and would likely split the community even further. It also might cause issues with finding a game because the population would be split between the playlists.

 

They're not going to change it drastically. It's sad, but Halo is going down the tubes. We are losing all originality of what made Halo so great, and now theyre transforming it into a futuristic-style of Call of Duty. It's pathetic.

The fact you're righting off a game without even playing it is pathetic.

[funkyman909]

make MC's armor look normal make shure the phantoms anti grav beams are blue make shure the grunts look normal the pics i have seen they look weird change the HUD as well no more grenade indicator and MC dosent hav a jet pack if you add new wepons please explain where they came from

[DerpWithAGun]

If skill is based on KD then there is no way for boosting and people wouldn't camp as there would be no point. If you want to rank up all you need is a positive KD. That means if you get 10 deaths and 11 kills you will be able to rank up. If you get 0 deaths and 25 kills you wills till be entitled to that +1 or +0.5 to your rank. There would be no point in camping.

[Unease Peanut]

I agree with you guys on the point of promethean vision either the recharge time should be increased or the range should be decreased.

[DeadlySniper19]

If skill is based on KD then there is no way for boosting and people wouldn't camp as there would be no point. If you want to rank up all you need is a positive KD. That means if you get 10 deaths and 11 kills you will be able to rank up. If you get 0 deaths and 25 kills you wills till be entitled to that +1 or +0.5 to your rank. There would be no point in camping.

 

It's easy to put up a high kd if you camp with, for example, invis and shotty. But I don't think a person like that deserves to rank up for putting up those stats in a manner that doesn't deserve rewarding. Someone who's just crouching around the map isn't being helpful to the team (instead of team shotting with the br, he would be crouching around the map looking for an easy opportunity to pick one person off). Needless to say this drastically slows down gameplay and decreases the rewards of being a team player. I know that if I was being rewarded individually and not as a team - screw winning and helping my team, I'm gonna do what it takes to put up good stats so I can rank up (and I know a lot if not the majority would do the same). If it's a team game why should rewards only be individual? I can understand why good players would want such a system, believe me, as a competitive player, when i initially heard of such a system I was all for it - but you have to realize and understand the implications of it. Most developers are against this type of system for the reasons detailed in my previous post about system abuse, negatively impacted playstyle and gameplay, etc.

[Mr Biggles]

As i said, we should use the Arena/ Starcraft 2 style somehow, and somehow convert it to a numbered ranking system.

[DerpWithAGun]

As i said, we should use the Arena/ Starcraft 2 style somehow, and somehow convert it to a numbered ranking system.

 

What is the Starcraft 2 ranking style like?

[Spectrum]

Isn't there already the obvious downside to Promethean vision? Everybody is under the impression that this vision is one way. It's not. It acts like a beacon, so whenever you use it, you not only find out where enemies are, you announce your position to them. If used incorrectly, you just announced where you are to four other players who are now coming to kill you.

 

Also, skill based on k/d is a terrible idea. It did not work with CoD for obvious reasons, i.e. camping, demoting the value of teamwork etc. How would that even be fair in objective based gameplay? Even in normal Slayer it's unfair, as Assists would count for squat, and you'd be left at the end of a game with a good few kills than what you would have got if say, you took the Br instead of the plasma pistol, but your team would have done worse.

 

Also, splitting the community is not the best idea you could have. You call unlimited sprint a perk (every player has it, not a perk, base power, just like your shields and the abiltiy to beat the crap out of anything), but yet you acknowledge the need for players to go faster, suggesting that they increase player speed. What logic is this?

 

Why does everyone think that a ranking system where you rank up because you won and rank down because you lost is accurate? I've played against many people that only won because of one member of their team or because people on my team quit. How about this: You only rank up if you win and (in Slayer games at least) you get more kills than deaths. If you win and go negative then you would either rank down slightly or not change rank at all. This would be more accurate then a system that rewards people based solely on wins or losses because it would only reward people who helped their team. This wouldn't work in objective games,but it would work well in slayer games.

 

Because objectively, someone has to go negative on a team to win. Kinda harsh to exclude people on the same team from gaining a bonus for winning. Who's going to rush for the power weapons? Distract the enemies? Stick the sword guy? Drive the warthog? You get the point. Besides, it would promote passive playing, and that would slow down gameplay far more than any of the new features.

[Mr Biggles]

Also, splitting the community is not the best idea you could have. You call unlimited sprint a perk (every player has it, not a perk, base power, just like your shields and the abiltiy to beat the crap out of anything), but yet you acknowledge the need for players to go faster, suggesting that they increase player speed. What logic is this?

 

 

 

Because sprint shouldn't be needed to speed up the gameplay, and since UNLIMITED SPRINT Is a perk, what if people don't equip it? the gameplay is gonna be slow as ever, the player speed needs to be increased just to make the game more fun.

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

Isn't there already the obvious downside to Promethean vision? Everybody is under the impression that this vision is one way. It's not. It acts like a beacon, so whenever you use it, you not only find out where enemies are, you announce your position to them. If used incorrectly, you just announced where you are to four other players who are now coming to kill you.

 

Also, skill based on k/d is a terrible idea. It did not work with CoD for obvious reasons, i.e. camping, demoting the value of teamwork etc. How would that even be fair in objective based gameplay? Even in normal Slayer it's unfair, as Assists would count for squat, and you'd be left at the end of a game with a good few kills than what you would have got if say, you took the Br instead of the plasma pistol, but your team would have done worse.

 

Also, splitting the community is not the best idea you could have. You call unlimited sprint a perk (every player has it, not a perk, base power, just like your shields and the abiltiy to beat the crap out of anything), but yet you acknowledge the need for players to go faster, suggesting that they increase player speed. What logic is this?

 

 

 

Because objectively, someone has to go negative on a team to win. Kinda harsh to exclude people on the same team from gaining a bonus for winning. Who's going to rush for the power weapons? Distract the enemies? Stick the sword guy? Drive the warthog? You get the point. Besides, it would promote passive playing, and that would slow down gameplay far more than any of the new features.

Did you even read my post where I admitted that a win/loss system was better? Obviously not. And saying that someone on a team has to go negative for that team to win is just stupid. Other than that, I agree with you.

[Spectrum]

Did you even read my post where I admitted that a win/loss system was better? Obviously not. And saying that someone on a team has to go negative for that team to win is just stupid. Other than that, I agree with you.

 

Possibly not have to, but you can see veritable situations in which perfectly good players can suffer. Oh, and yes I did miss that post.

 

Because sprint shouldn't be needed to speed up the gameplay, and since UNLIMITED SPRINT Is a perk, what if people don't equip it? the gameplay is gonna be slow as ever, the player speed needs to be increased just to make the game more fun.

 

But by giving everyone some sprint, just a little, it allows those who truly excel at the game to succeed more, by giving them the oppurtunity to use it when they need it, and only then. It's like with sniper bullets. You can have someone who can get a sniper, and kill around 10 people with it before they lose it. Others may only kill 2, or at worst, accidentally betray someone, get brutally beaten down, and booted out of the game in the time it takes to make a bowl of cereal.

[Destroyaaa]

First of all, great to see your taking the initiative to offer your input to make this game right. More importantly, all of your arguements are small issues compared to the ranking system. If you have never watched MLG Pro Ninja's rant on Halo Reach's ranking system, do it. I cant link it right now (at work) but his whole arguement is that if there was a competitive ranking system, everything about the game would be better. I like your idea for a ranking system but there are quite a few other alternitives that would still work for me.

 

Now to the nitty gritty. I watched 2 of the gameplay videos and I agree on some of your points. Your 2nd solution to Promethean vision seems like the better of the 2 to me, but it would be interesting if they were on the edge of the radar and stepped in/out. I could care less about sprint.

 

I completely disagree with you on ordinance drops. I liked what I saw. If you get the kills to get a drop, you should be able to get your weapon. Complete random ordinance drops create too much chaos and less strategy. I feel very strongly about this. The power weapon drops that show everyone in the game was also a good idea.

 

BR needs to be 4 shots. As for the DMR heres my solution. Make it 4 shots WITH bloom or 5 WITHOUT bloom. I am okay with either of these solutions.

 

I think the idea for the competitive and semi-competitve playlists is ridiculous. There arent enough players in halo to do this, and would cause a huge rift in the community. If everyone wants classic halo, all the hard work 343i has been putting in to this game would be a waste. Embrace the change, keep a few playlists with classic play (ex. Classic Slayer, MLG, Team Snipers) and move on. You can argue Halo Reach was a change and it was a flop, but the reason it flopped was not the introduction of the DMR or AA's, it was the terrible ranking system.

 

 

Please comment on my ideas!

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

Promethean Vision seems fine as it is to me. You can see the other team if you use it, but you also just announced your position to them and they will be able to come and kill you if they choose to. I won't comment on the weapons because I haven't used them yet. Other than that I agree with Destroyaa.

[Did4ct]

 

Vote at the thread: VOTE for Classic Halo Gametype in Halo 4

[DerpWithAGun]

First of all, great to see your taking the initiative to offer your input to make this game right. More importantly, all of your arguements are small issues compared to the ranking system. If you have never watched MLG Pro Ninja's rant on Halo Reach's ranking system, do it. I cant link it right now (at work) but his whole arguement is that if there was a competitive ranking system, everything about the game would be better. I like your idea for a ranking system but there are quite a few other alternitives that would still work for me.

 

Now to the nitty gritty. I watched 2 of the gameplay videos and I agree on some of your points. Your 2nd solution to Promethean vision seems like the better of the 2 to me, but it would be interesting if they were on the edge of the radar and stepped in/out. I could care less about sprint.

 

I completely disagree with you on ordinance drops. I liked what I saw. If you get the kills to get a drop, you should be able to get your weapon. Complete random ordinance drops create too much chaos and less strategy. I feel very strongly about this. The power weapon drops that show everyone in the game was also a good idea.

 

BR needs to be 4 shots. As for the DMR heres my solution. Make it 4 shots WITH bloom or 5 WITHOUT bloom. I am okay with either of these solutions.

 

I think the idea for the competitive and semi-competitve playlists is ridiculous. There arent enough players in halo to do this, and would cause a huge rift in the community. If everyone wants classic halo, all the hard work 343i has been putting in to this game would be a waste. Embrace the change, keep a few playlists with classic play (ex. Classic Slayer, MLG, Team Snipers) and move on. You can argue Halo Reach was a change and it was a flop, but the reason it flopped was not the introduction of the DMR or AA's, it was the terrible ranking system.

 

 

Please comment on my ideas!

 

Great post! These are the kinds of posts I am looking for!

 

Anyway, the thing about embracing change is that, the change for Halo 4 which we have to embrace is a bad way to develop the game. There are other ways to develop the game and make it very fun without using armor abilities and perks that un-balance the game. A quick solution is like Halo 3. Make the AA's that are in Halo 4 now and turn them into equipment that you pick up around the map. Example, jetpack. If you could pick it up around the map it could have a certain amount of fuel before it becomes useless. Same with thruster pack. A limited amount of fuel. Things like this are way better than Armor abilities.

 

As for the DMR, BR and carbine, as long as they all are balanced and the ROF and damage tables allow all the guns to be able to kill at the same amount of time.

 

Personal ordinance drops promotes camping as one could simply sit a spot, kill, get ordinance, kill everyone, repeat. Slows down gameplay. Non-personal ordinance drops are better as it draws competitive gameplay to random parts of the map, and makes the game more fun and competitive as everyone wants those rockets or sniper rifle.

[Destroyaaa]

Great post! These are the kinds of posts I am looking for!

 

Anyway, the thing about embracing change is that, the change for Halo 4 which we have to embrace is a bad way to develop the game. There are other ways to develop the game and make it very fun without using armor abilities and perks that un-balance the game. A quick solution is like Halo 3. Make the AA's that are in Halo 4 now and turn them into equipment that you pick up around the map. Example, jetpack. If you could pick it up around the map it could have a certain amount of fuel before it becomes useless. Same with thruster pack. A limited amount of fuel. Things like this are way better than Armor abilities.

 

As for the DMR, BR and carbine, as long as they all are balanced and the ROF and damage tables allow all the guns to be able to kill at the same amount of time.

 

Personal ordinance drops promotes camping as one could simply sit a spot, kill, get ordinance, kill everyone, repeat. Slows down gameplay. Non-personal ordinance drops are better as it draws competitive gameplay to random parts of the map, and makes the game more fun and competitive as everyone wants those rockets or sniper rifle.

 

AA's are something that you just have to get used to. Idk why but I've never had much of an issue with them, either starting with them or how in MLG they put jetpacks on the map. Personal preference I guess. As for the ordinance drops, on one of the maps the guy from 343i says they drop power weapons at random spots at certain points in the game and everyone in the game is shown where its going to drop. The rockets were dropped at the spot and the 2 teams fought for it. This is exactly what you want and I do too. The personal drops dont give weapons such as rockets and snipers, more assistance weapons such as a scatter shot or needler.

[Ryu♥Hayabusa]

Anyway, the thing about embracing change is that, the change for Halo 4 which we have to embrace is a bad way to develop the game. There are other ways to develop the game and make it very fun without using armor abilities and perks that un-balance the game. A quick solution is like Halo 3. Make the AA's that are in Halo 4 now and turn them into equipment that you pick up around the map. Example, jetpack. If you could pick it up around the map it could have a certain amount of fuel before it becomes useless. Same with thruster pack. A limited amount of fuel. Things like this are way better than Armor abilities.

The reason Bungie decided to make AA's in the first place was because you can experiment with it and still have it for later to use. Limited use would bring the old problem of wasting it accidentally back again. 343 seems to agree with what Bungie did. As do I.

 

Please tell me how AA's un-balance the game. Jetpack: can fly above to confuse but hinders movement. Thruster Pack: can evade and charge at enemies but cant use it frequently and must aim movement or catastrophic failure(Epic Fail) can occur. They seem balanced to me. The AA argument is a weak one at any rate, no matter where it is or who is arguing. They are there, and balanced. 343 simply will not take them out or return to the Halo 3 method. They will only further balance them.

AA's are something that you just have to get used to. Idk why but I've never had much of an issue with them, either starting with them or how in MLG they put jetpacks on the map. Personal preference I guess. As for the ordinance drops, on one of the maps the guy from 343i says they drop power weapons at random spots at certain points in the game and everyone in the game is shown where its going to drop. The rockets were dropped at the spot and the 2 teams fought for it. This is exactly what you want and I do too. The personal drops dont give weapons such as rockets and snipers, more assistance weapons such as a scatter shot or needler.

Yes. Exactly.

[VEF214]

The reason Bungie decided to make AA's in the first place was because you can experiment with it and still have it for later to use. Limited use would bring the old problem of wasting it accidentally back again. 343 seems to agree with what Bungie did. As do I.

 

Please tell me how AA's un-balance the game. Jetpack: can fly above to confuse but hinders movement. Thruster Pack: can evade and charge at enemies but cant use it frequently and must aim movement or catastrophic failure(Epic Fail) can occur. They seem balanced to me. The AA argument is a weak one at any rate, no matter where it is or who is arguing. They are there, and balanced. 343 simply will not take them out or return to the Halo 3 method. They will only further balance them.

Yes. Exactly.

 

The reason they decided to make them was innovation for the sake of innovation. Halo all the sudden needed AA's to keep up with the pace of modern gaming and its needs. AA's unbalance the game if they alter base player damage or health, and I hope 343i understands this. Movement and stealth/detection/distraction AA's are fine. I wouldn't say they are 100% balanced. Nothing is truly balanced if both players spawn with different abilities. It's only semi-balanced and made to seem completely fair on the surface because "well yeah you can choose it too." But in reality you do lose engagements purely because of AA's, even when you aim better, strafe better, and generally fight better than the opponent. And you lose because you didn't pick the right one for that moment, thus, not rewarding basic player skills, such as aiming in a shooter, but rather menu selection options which is bizarre. Halo for the most part has lost its satisfying arena feel. It's still fun, but at the same time way more frustrating, and also I find myself owning people and feeling the "my god this is cheap but I love it" rush.

 

*armor locks*