Absolutely Unacceptable!

[fzdw11]

Out of curiosity, what did you say previously? I know it wasn't my entire post, I've been following this thread from the beginning and now you have me utterly confused.

[Drizzy_Dan]

To be honest, I think this was all solved when adam posted the news about the possiblity of Elite Ops. I respect all Sangheili clans and admire how much they stick to their artificial culture. Any Spartan players don't really have a right to say Fal is wrong here. But Fal I think with all the heat that's come up about this specific topic, 343 will probably give the option of playing as Elites in customs and Forge and Elite Ops.

[Veer Zamamai]

To be honest, I think this was all solved when adam posted the news about the possiblity of Elite Ops. I respect all Sangheili clans and admire how much they stick to their artificial culture. Any Spartan players don't really have a right to say Fal is wrong here. But Fal I think with all the heat that's come up about this specific topic, 343 will probably give the option of playing as Elites in customs and Forge and Elite Ops.

 

I'm glad to hear, thank you Dan and I think it might have been this thread or the others with the statement of 'THERE WILL BE ELITES IN HALO 4, IN CUSTOM GAMES AND FORGE!'. Something along those lines.

[VivaLebowski]

These were the things we were 'disagreeing' on? Really?

 

Bombardment incoming:

 

You said, and I quote "what matters is entirely subjective". Even if you meant this purely with regards to Halo 4, your still completely up a tree. Saying what matters is entirely subjective basically says "the elements that are important to Halo being good" are completely subjective. That Halo being "good" or not is completely subjective. But this obviously doesn't hold true...if someone refused to buy Halo 3 because they didn't like the color of the traffic cones on Rats Nest they are making a absolute mistake. Do I say that subjectively? Of course, its my subjective opinion but its one based on a completely objective standard which most of us share. If the traffic cone does not matter objectively that disproves that not everything that "really matters" is subjective.

 

Objectively and absolutely, what really matters excludes traffic cone color (unless Bungie had decided to make them epileptic seizure inducing strobes lol) and thus what really matters is not entirely subjective. This same logic can be extrapolated to what Mr.Elite whats his face thinks and says since his opinions are only a matter of degrees difference away from the traffic cone analogy. We can have the argument "does this cosmetic choice matter" or not, but the instant you decide to argue one way or another on that, you admit that there is an objective truth about that issue. We cannot both be right so either one of us is right or both of us are wrong, in accordance with an objective standard which exists quite independent of our subjective opinions.

 

Not all arguments are like that, as we both agreed (and I never denied) and We have different opinions of course; we all interpret that objective standard subjectively in cases which are more complex than the aforementioned traffic cone, but the fact is Traffic cone color does not equal game breaking flaw. This is an objective reality as well as my subjective opinion. If your going to deny that, I'm not going to argue anymore because your simply too dense. But I suspect your not going to deny that. Opinions, arguments, etc. are subjective simply because we are stupid and have flawed judgement; we are imperfect,and to a certain extent evil little creatures in the scope of the Universe. When we form the wrong opinions and f' up our perception of the objective standard, that is our fault and its completely internal. Our opinions of what matter are subjective, but they can be right, and they can be wrong, because what actually does matter is distinct from what we think, and what actually does matter is objective.

[VivaLebowski]

There is a very big difference between a 'Troll' as you suggested, and someone who is annoyed and is standing up for his rights. I'm not trolling, just stating the obvious. You don't like it, don't come back here again, simple. Have a grand day, oh yeah and by the way.

 

Rights?! Good lord boy where did you go to school? You don't even have a right to an xbox or a video game let alone rights to a cosmetic choice in one particular video game; you are only fortunate to have these privileges.

[ProdigyPoop]

lol okay you can't call yourself a Halo fan if you're gonna stop playing just because Elites won't be playable. Besides, I'm sure 343i has a good explanation for it. It's 343i's first true Halo game, give'em a little brake. I'm just happy that there will be a Halo 4! I thought Reach was the last one for some time!

[SpartanIV]

You must of read it wrong. Elites are not playable in multiplayer. Elites will still be in the campaign.

[a live dinosaur]

Elite clans? Simply switch to Spartans. You are mad because you can't play an alien. I love the Elites, but I don't care if they are in multiplayer, even though that would be nice.

[Veer Zamamai]

You must of read it wrong. Elites are not playable in multiplayer. Elites will still be in the campaign.

 

No sir, you must have read my butt signs wrong!

[Baby Boo]

 

 

No sir, you must have read my butt signs wrong!

 

 

Lock it down, fal. You've been taking all of this far to seriously.

[Veer Zamamai]

Lock it down, fal. You've been taking all of this far to seriously.

 

I'm defending myself, oh I forgot, it's a great idea to stand and let someone insult you.

[Baby Boo]

 

 

I'm defending myself, oh I forgot, it's a great idea to stand and let someone insult you.

 

We do not in any way mean to

insult you. We are simply explaining the

reasoning behind why elites cannot be in

multiplayer. We all feel sorry for the elite clans

and lovers, to some degree, but we need to

accept this change.

[Veer Zamamai]

We do not in any way mean to

insult you. We are simply explaining the

reasoning behind why elites cannot be in

multiplayer. We all feel sorry for the elite clans

and lovers, to some degree, but we need to

accept this change.

 

We already got past that, I'm not particularly bothered about them not being in Matchmaking, I'm arguing about the fact that they're in Custom Games and Forge when others are saying different.

[Baby Boo]

I have not heard one person try to object to the fact that they will be playable in custom games and forge. Which they will be.

[Veer Zamamai]

I have not heard one person try to object to the fact that they will be playable in custom games and forge. Which they will be.

You must of read it wrong. Elites are not playable in multiplayer. Elites will still be in the campaign.

 

Point proven...

[Baby Boo]

Thank you for your understanding, fal. Have a nice day

[xxBEASTLYBOYZxx]

The elites wil be back in the campaign only wont be playable in multiplayer because the story 343i gave to the Multiplayer

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Veer Zamamai]

Thank you for your understanding, fal. Have a nice day

 

No problem, pleasure to be of service.

[Baby Boo]

Thats my job

[zI Maleficent]

and what actually does matter is objective.

Objectivity: not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased. Given that objectivity is based on factual information, for an objective standard to be formed in regards to anything, it has to to be clearly defined and identifiable, based entirely on said facts, and be utterly free from subjectivity. Now, 'what matters' has no clearly defined overall criteria which governs the standards for whether is is objective or not, (or whether it is even objectively quantifiable at all) and 'what matters' is an abstract concept subject to personal interpretations, influenced by personal feelings, and inherently has a basis in subjectivity. While there can be objective reasoning used to formulate opinions, ultimately, our opinions are subjective in nature, and what we see as mattering as different individuals is no different.

"what matters is entirely subjective". Even if you meant this purely with regards to Halo 4, your still completely up a tree. Saying what matters is entirely subjective basically says "the elements that are important to Halo being good" are completely subjective.

This is akin to the distinction between 'What you like best' and 'What is best'. The former is focused on a subjective viewpoint of an object, without objectively analysing the object itself (subjective), while the latter focuses on the object and, at the expense of personal opinions, is intent on discovering factual information about the object itself (objective). Thus, baring in mind that what matters is subjective, in acknowledging that fact, I am not collating objectivity with subjectivity.

If the traffic cone does not matter objectively that disproves that not everything that "really matters" is subjective.

So because something has no objective importance then it cannot have subjective importance? What kind of logic is that? Regardless, you need to re-read this point, because you are asserting that if the traffic cone doesn't matter objectively, then it disproves the notion that not everything which matters is subjective, which is your point, resulting in a self-defeating argument. (At least, I'm gathering that it wasn't your intent to potentially screw your own argument over.)

We can have the argument "does this cosmetic choice matter" or not, but the instant you decide to argue one way or another on that, you admit that there is an objective truth about that issue. We cannot both be right so either one of us is right or both of us are wrong, in accordance with an objective standard which exists quite independent of our subjective opinions.

By definition, what matters is based on subjectivity, and thus in posting either way on a topic based on subjectivity, I am not admitting or adhering to any objective truth which does not exist within the specified subject matter. The nature of the subject is based on personal viewpoints, and as such if I make an argument on the subject, regardless of which side I take, the only thing I am asserting outside of whatever points hypothetically crop up, is that what matters to me is different to you, and entirely subjective. Objective judgements are absolutely true, whereas the truth of subjective judgements is relative to the person making the judgement. Attempting to apply some perceived objective standard onto a matter of subjectivity is simply a waste of time, due to the fact that subjectivity and objectivity are at odds; trying to apply any standard from one to the other and expecting it to hold water is foolish. You can say someone is objectively 'wrong' for a certain subjective viewpoint, but that is unfairly applying out of place and irrelevant standards, and even then doesn't necessarily unveil them as being 'wrong'.

 

I think I will choose this moment to bug out. Other than the fact that there is yet more off-topic posts in this topic, this debate is no longer engaging or entertaining. At this point, I'm simply repeating myself and have grown so weary of witnessing straw-men and the same arguments time and time again that I lack the will to call them out and read through any more posts from you.

[Veer Zamamai]

Objectivity: not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased. Given that objectivity is based on factual information, for an objective standard to be formed in regards to anything, it has to to be clearly defined and identifiable, based entirely on said facts, and be utterly free from subjectivity. Now, 'what matters' has no clearly defined overall criteria which governs the standards for whether is is objective or not, (or whether it is even objectively quantifiable at all) and 'what matters' is an abstract concept subject to personal interpretations, influenced by personal feelings, and inherently has a basis in subjectivity. While there can be objective reasoning used to formulate opinions, ultimately, our opinions are subjective in nature, and what we see as mattering as different individuals is no different.

This is akin to the distinction between 'What you like best' and 'What is best'. The former is focused on a subjective viewpoint of an object, without objectively analysing the object itself (subjective), while the latter focuses on the object and, at the expense of personal opinions, is intent on discovering factual information about the object itself (objective). Thus, baring in mind that what matters is subjective, in acknowledging that fact, I am not collating objectivity with subjectivity.

So because something has no objective importance then it cannot have subjective importance? What kind of logic is that? Regardless, you need to re-read this point, because you are asserting that if the traffic cone doesn't matter objectively, then it disproves the notion that not everything which matters is subjective, which is your point, resulting in a self-defeating argument. (At least, I'm gathering that it wasn't your intent to potentially screw your own argument over.)

By definition, what matters is based on subjectivity, and thus in posting either way on a topic based on subjectivity, I am not admitting or adhering to any objective truth which does not exist within the specified subject matter. The nature of the subject is based on personal viewpoints, and as such if I make an argument on the subject, regardless of which side I take, the only thing I am asserting outside of whatever points hypothetically crop up, is that what matters to me is different to you, and entirely subjective. Objective judgements are absolutely true, whereas the truth of subjective judgements is relative to the person making the judgement. Attempting to apply some perceived objective standard onto a matter of subjectivity is simply a waste of time, due to the fact that subjectivity and objectivity are at odds; trying to apply any standard from one to the other and expecting it to hold water is foolish. You can say someone is objectively 'wrong' for a certain subjective viewpoint, but that is unfairly applying out of place and irrelevant standards, and even then doesn't necessarily unveil them as being 'wrong'.

 

I think I will choose this moment to bug out. Other than the fact that there is yet more off-topic posts in this topic, this debate is no longer engaging or entertaining. At this point, I'm simply repeating myself and have grown so weary of witnessing straw-men and the same arguments time and time again that I lack the will to call them out and read through any more posts from you.

 

Effort of one hundred, we have another candidate that likes to Google search his definitions or check his Dictionary.

[CheeseMunchy]

What's wrong with elites?

[RoosterTeethFan]

Why cant we be friends? its just a game and Frankie has said they might do a elite ops.

[Veer Zamamai]

Why cant we be friends? its just a game and Frankie has said they might do a elite ops.

 

Excluding the fact that they will be in Custom Games and Forge.

[VivaLebowski]

@ Zl Malificient

 

And just when it was getting good! Well not really...your basic assumption is you think a subjective argument cannot also be an objective argument...as if me saying 2 + 2 equals 4 is not both my subjective opinion and a statement of objective fact. Subjective and Objective arent mutually exclusive and thats where your arguments break down. That and, you seem to think that what we think matter and what actually does matter are the same thing. Protecting Children actually does matter, no matter what my opinion of it is. The notion of "what is important" is something independant of what actually is important.

 

Also funny is the fact that you are pointing out that saying someone is objectively wrong on a subjective matter is silly when you were just saying you needed to forgive the OP for his lack of objectivity. If what he is talking about is simply subjective and I have no reason to be applying objective logic to it, why say he needs "objectivity" at all? Was I wrong to criticize him/her for it?

 

But since you "bugged" out, I will write no more. Ain't sure what your voluntary pull out means visa-vi who had the best points but hopefully we wont have to hear anything more about how every element of Halo which we value or don't value is completely subjective from now on.