my reason why bloom MUST STAY

[CandiBunni]

not entirely.

 

Care to explain why?

[MrPlow]

because i can just camp a room with scavenger and claymores, while constantly checking the windows. thats not skill. thats me being cheap just to get kills. ive gone games where i went 30 and 5 doing just that. thats what i mean but not entirely.

[CandiBunni]

because i can just camp a room with scavenger and claymores, while constantly checking the windows. thats not skill. thats me being cheap just to get kills. ive gone games where i went 30 and 5 doing just that. thats what i mean but not entirely.

 

That's cheap yes, but it does take some skill to find a decent place to be and to hold the area. If you've gone 30 and 5 from doing that, the people you're up against just aren't very good. That means you were the more skilled player.

[MrPlow]

meh. i guess so lol.

[g00n77]

I never said anything about camping to begin with. I also never compared Halo (or Reach for that matter) to COD. You can shoot and kill people in any part of the body in Halo as well. My point was, and is, that Call of Duty takes skill (even if you don't like the series). It takes skill to get tons of kills without dying or dying very few times in that game.

 

 

yea it takes skill like any other game but it has been proven that the game takes less....simply because it has little to no meta game...just pick the best weapon (FA MAS) then learn the maps and thats pretty much the whole meta game...in reach the meta game takes years to learn..you have to learn how to drop somones shields with X weapon and then switch to Y weapon to drop their health...alot of stuff like this in halo and it adds tons to the metagame. so yes in theory cod takes skill like any other game...but when u compare to other skill based games and compare the metagames it actually is way dumbed down..

 

so yea a skilled cod player is going to beat a 4 year old everytime but cod as a whole promotes 4 year old players...in reach a 4 year old would get frustrated and go play SP or firefight instead...COD is an fps boiled down to the base mechanics. spawn, run out, die, spawn instantly. it has removed spawn timers, map weapon placement ect. and yea thats not a bad thing but it still is unarguably easier to learn and master then halo is..

 

and yes you can get a killshot on halo by shooting somone in the toe...but thats only if you already have them down to low health. in cod i shot somone in the toe with a pistol and he died in one bullet (he had full health and had just spawned) so you can see the difference. in halo once i drop somones shield i can hit them in the head for a instant kill or shoot them 3 times in the toe for a delayed kill....even if a guy has full health in COD it doesnt matter if i hit him in the head or in the toe with that pistol i still get a kill. seems odd in a game where your health regenerates. why even have regenerating health if you cant even take a shot to the toe...might as well make the game one shot kills for any weapon...

 

keep in mind that my cod observations are based on hardcore mode and i actually havent played blackops just MW2....and i would also like to point out that i have nothing against cod...the game is fairly polished....i just prefer halo: reach.

 

i say we stop talking about how much skill cod does or doesnt take as we are getting kinda off topic at this point =P. i thought this thread was about bloom not skill. XD

[jdfour]

I'm just just there's halo, anyway they have it I'll adjust.

[Jhorse02]

Simple answer. Halo ce halo 2 halo 3 were all better than reach! Why? Bloom! And no don't tell me they had bloom because they didn't. Did u ever have to take extra time before u fired ur br again? No. Y? Because there was no bloom. The gun had natural bullet spread but not to where u had to time ur shots.

The only gun u should kinda burst fire is the ar not the br or dmr that's just boring. I play reach everyday and like the game but people need to realize this bloom **** along with armorlock and no accurate halo 2 style not halo 3 1 to 50 ranking system is why reach always has less than 100000 people on and it's sad when more people play living dead than slayer. I remember 300000 to 1000000 people on halo and I miss those days

[The Director]

I don't mind bloom in other games like COD. However, in Reach, it feels unrealistic. (All of the following is IMO)

 

Now, before you go off on how Halo is a Sci-Fi game and thereby not realistic at all, I didn't mean it like that. The point of Sci-Fi is to make things as realistic and explainable as possible. Fantasy, on the other hand, is where nothing really makes any sense, and there are usually random Unicorns and magics. It's also usually set in the past.

 

Halo, on the other hand, is supposed to be explainable. Now explain to me how a super human soldier who has been genetically enhanced to increase strength, eyesight, speed, balance, etc who is also wearing armor that not only stops the majority of bullets, but also has a hardening gel layer that helps them maintain a perfect weapon stance without fatiguing can't even keep a quarter inch grouping with a semi automatic weapon at a distance of about 25 meters? Even US Marines can do that. The real ones. Explain to me how a normal human (even though he is badas$ for being a marine) can out-shoot a genetically enhanced walking tank.

 

By all rights, when a Spartan holds a weapon, it should have the same accuracy as a weapon placed in a vice. There would still be a slight spread (like the BR in Halo 3) if they were spamming, but not one that you would notice without knowing that it was happening. That's what I mean by it feels unrealistic. You are supposed to be this awesome super human killing machine, but you aren't able to hit a target that someone straight out of boot would be able to?

 

As far as the actual gameplay goes, they aren't taking ALL of the bloom out, just 20% or so (due to the NR becoming a power weapon *shudders*), so that won't be too noticeable. It will mean, however, that fewer newbs get a lucky headshot by spamming and not aiming. I've killed my fair share of people with lucky shots, where the center of my reticle was nowhere NEAR their head, but I've also felt the arse-end of that. Pacing your shots doesn't work as well (on the game or in real life) as unloading a clip in the general direction of your opponent. Now, with the bullets going where your reticle is, the "wall of lead" strategy will no longer work with the DMR. No longer can you aim next to your enemies head and get a headshot. Now you actually have to point at their head.

 

Am I denying that countering bloom takes skill? No, of course not. It is challenging to slow your shots down so they hit where they are pointed at. However, it's less effective then pacing the first 3 or 4 then spamming like crazy (which takes no skill, but reaps high rewards). And no, I'm not dissing bloom on Halo because I suck with it (9k+ headshot medals FTW ) I'm just saying it doesn't FEEL right. It's like I'm playing a slightly more accurate form of COD. Which it's odd that Halo would become more like COD, considering that COD has used quite a bit that the Halo series started. (timed lobbies, two weapons instead of a weapon reel, "safe" spawning) Alright, I'm done with my Essay of the day. I hope. -.-

[Twinreaper]

JHorse, your an idiot. Every Halo title had what is commonly referred to as "bloom". Do I need to pull out some data references and tag values to prove it once again for the billionth time? "Bloom", is how everyone describes a particular weapon mechanic that is not easily explained or understood. 343 or Bungie for that matter could go into great detail and try to explain it, but unless you have an intimate knowledge of the tagging systems and the tag values used, you would still not understand it all.

 

As for something i read about bloom being recoil. WRONG! Bloom is not recoil. Recoil is the effect we see with the SMG from H3 and H2. The particulars of recoil are controlled by values set as "error angle per shot max / min". translated, this means for every burst or shot, the weapon's aiming reticule is forced upward at the set value. The Sniper Rifles also have recoil, but because the "reload before next fire" value is higher, you can only squeeze off shots at a certain speed.

 

I have read some reviews about the new TU with adjustable "bloom". I can only summarize from what I have read, that the additional MegaloScript handling they included to give players this, is not only adjusting the firing spread, but also the rate at which the weapon can fire rounds. I cannot remember where I read it, but a few players stated that the DMR fires a little quicker than before. Can this be confirmed by anyone else? I would like to try to solidify what changes are exactly occurring and how the scripts are changing certain values. Purely for educational purposes of coarse.

[Jhorse02]

Ok twin one question. Did u ever time ur shots with the br? The way the br worked was when u went to fire again the bloom was already reset. The bullet spread is the only thing u had to worry about. It wasn't a self paced weapon. That's what I'm talking about. This random firing spamming **** is stupid and no I'm not bad with the bloom I just hate it.

[Twinreaper]

I think you are getting yourself confused. No weapon can fire at the same rate at which you pull the trigger. If you pound the trigger for a weapon that is not automatic, the weapon will still only fire as fast as the weapon tag itself is set to allow. Even with the BR, there was iirc, a value of 0.113 set as the cooldown before another shot could be fired.

 

Concerning the firing spread of the BR, it was so minimal anyway, that you would have to be at about mid map to see any if all the projectiles of the firing burst miss the target. Even so, at least 2 of the bullets from the 3 round burst would be about 90% sure to hit. I have a couple big posts about Bloom and what it actually is somewhere around this site in various threads. Sometime soon I will go thru a list of common functionalities and display up some values and a good description of each of them. I don't expect people to understand everything there has to do with specific game mechanics, but what I absolutely cannot understand is ignorant people who mouth off about things they have no knowledge of, and claim they are right simply because they say they are. Just for future referrence to anyone reading here, I can always provide clear ripped proof of any tag values or mechanics you may have questions about. Don't be shy, the Reaper is here to help!

[El Silverado]

The Reach engine was one that was not properly set to the classic Halo feel. E.g. AA should have been pickups, armor lock should be whats after TU.

[Twinreaper]

Agreed. During pre-production when the Reach Engine was being coded, they were solely focused on supporting everything they ever wanted to throw into a stand alone Halo title. Hence foregoing the traditional Halo feel we were all familiar with. But that aside it turned out well given the above information. I suspected as much that people would be too overhyped about the changes to support a classic feel. I said it all along that it wouldn't feel the way people were expecting. But then again it is still too early to tell. I have to admit though.....the Timberland map looks fricken awesome! It's almost identical to a Timberland remake I did for Halo 2 PC about 9 months ago. I had bridges spanning the creeks along the sides of the bases and tons of various trees and fallen trunks to lurk around in. I even added an additional waterfall. Perhaps the 343 team took some inspiration from the modding and map making community?

[Jhorse02]

Reaper I know exactly how the br works. What I'm saying is when the cooldown time between shots goes away and your ready to fire your gun again, there was no bloom effect to cause you to wait even longer than that cooldown time in order to have a accurate shot. Therefore there was no bloom effect on the br. When the cooldown time went away reaper and u could fire again u could count on your bullets going straight without waiting even longer to pull the trigger.

[Twinreaper]

You know slightly how the BR works. Bloom is nothing more than the visual effect of the HUD reticule letting you know when it is safe to fire a shot again after a certain time period has elapsed since your last shot. This feature has been in all Halo games and is more specifically firing radius. Depending on how fast you shoot, effects the radius in which your shots can land. The blooming reticule is just showing players on screen the value that is in the weapon tag itself. Does anyone read what i write when I try to explain these things?!? Reach is just simply the first Halo game to give players a visual representation of real time firing radius via the blooming reticule. Bloom itself is nothing more than a HUD bitmap widget with a shader function.

 

The BR had a toned down radius to the effect of something like 0.015 or something like that. Even when pulling the trigger rapidly or pacing shots, the amount of space you could expect the br to land shots in was very small. Go way back and think about the BXR hack people used. Even when firing super fast like that, the shots stayed on target. That is due to the weapon tags value settings, not bloom or lack there of.

 

Bloom was only added likely because of a large amount of the community wanted a way of knowing where exactly they could expect there shots to land as they pulled the trigger each time, rather than have a giant reticule radius that was fixed, and have to guess where in that space even paced shots would land. TO wrap it up nicely for you, bloom is a visual aid, nothing more.

[X H3LL JUMPER X]

To me Halo was always what Bungie, and now the overlords 343 make of it if they put it in there game then it is correct, there the creators of this amazing game and if they want it in who are we to say it's wrong, they spend the hours making the game.

[Twinreaper]

And that's what matters most. They created it, not us. Learn to adjust to new game mechanics. Adjust your tactics and teamwork. Constantly complaining about things never gets you anywhere in life.

[Absolute Dog]

The DMR will only continue through HCEA. When H4 is released with will have the trusted BR back, or possibly an ungraded version of it. Having a recoiless weapon that exists so far into the future would be expected. Reach was a through back game to the past where it did exist. Goon, referring to those who id not care for "bloom" or Reach as "noobs" is not productive. Bloom is getting reduced via the update and may improve game play for all, we will see.

 

Have not seen you before......so welcome to 343!

[g00n77]

The DMR will only continue through HCEA. When H4 is released with will have the trusted BR back, or possibly an ungraded version of it. Having a recoiless weapon that exists so far into the future would be expected. Reach was a through back game to the past where it did exist. Goon, referring to those who id not care for "bloom" or Reach as "noobs" is not productive. Bloom is getting reduced via the update and may improve game play for all, we will see.

 

Have not seen you before......so welcome to 343!

 

 

yes i agree that future weapons would have less recoil then current day guns....that is unless those guns had bigger more powerful bullets inside. a DMR can kill a banshee with continued fire...hell i have even made cracks in tank armor with the dmr...my point is the DMR is a real cannon, the gun would break the arm of a standard human trying to spam the trigger so i would imagine a spartan would have slight recoil...and they do have slight recoil..not very much recoil to be honest.

[AgentLoFi]

At this point i'm thinking there should be a whole forum on bloom! LOL

[iCaPWN3d]

I dont see the problem you have with bloom....

A noob like you will spam and get kills with random luck, simple as that.

The outcome of a fight should not be determined by luck, it should be determined by skill, accuracy, headshots, etc...

 

With 0 bloom, if you're good at getting headshots you will most likely win you're DMR battles.

(The more experienced player will come out on top)<--- How Halo has always been until Reach.

 

i saw halo3 as flawed and when i played reach in the beta i fell in love.

You're an idiot.

[Lolmenade]

I like Halo: Reach.

[Twinreaper]

A noob like you will spam and get kills with random luck, simple as that.

The outcome of a fight should not be determined by luck, it should be determined by skill, accuracy, headshots, etc...

 

With 0 bloom, if you're good at getting headshots you will most likely win you're DMR battles.

(The more experienced player will come out on top)<--- How Halo has always been until Reach.

 

 

You're an idiot.

 

Wow, glad to know there are more retards like you who do not understand one damn thing about a game or it's mechanics. Games do not contain luck. Luck is a common human belief that something other than a series of events lead to an unpredictable result. Luck is non existent. DMR battles with the TU will not require more skill, but less skill to get those headshot kills. Because of the tweaks to the weapons, the firing radius (spread) of the DMR is trimmed down to that of the old H3 Battle Rifle. Now whether or not they are adjusting the weapons projectile speed has yet to be seen. Really iCapWN3d, you should understand things first before trying to spout off about them. It just makes you look stupid.

 

And for the last time...BLOOM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW THE WEAPON FIRES OR HOW ACCURATE IT IS. IT IS ONLY A VISUAL AID USED TO HELP PLAYERS. BLOOM IS NOT RECOIL. BLOOM DOES NOT CONTROL ANYTHING. My god people really?!? How many times must I state this, as well as others. Can we make a new rule? How about after now, after all the data and examples I have provided, anyone else wishing to insult others about bloom or give out stupid ass comments about what bloom is or isn't, said people get banned from the site, or have Ungoy feces thrown at them. Anyone here want to officially challenge me on the specifics of the Reach Blam! Engine, MegaloScript or tag data and fields in regards to this idiotic thing called "bloom"? No? GOOD! Case closed. Please lock this thread Spectral.

[g00n77]

Wow, glad to know there are more retards like you who do not understand one damn thing about a game or it's mechanics. Games do not contain luck. Luck is a common human belief that something other than a series of events lead to an unpredictable result. Luck is non existent. DMR battles with the TU will not require more skill, but less skill to get those headshot kills. Because of the tweaks to the weapons, the firing radius (spread) of the DMR is trimmed down to that of the old H3 Battle Rifle. Now whether or not they are adjusting the weapons projectile speed has yet to be seen. Really iCapWN3d, you should understand things first before trying to spout off about them. It just makes you look stupid.

 

And for the last time...BLOOM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW THE WEAPON FIRES OR HOW ACCURATE IT IS. IT IS ONLY A VISUAL AID USED TO HELP PLAYERS. BLOOM IS NOT RECOIL. BLOOM DOES NOT CONTROL ANYTHING. My god people really?!? How many times must I state this, as well as others. Can we make a new rule? How about after now, after all the data and examples I have provided, anyone else wishing to insult others about bloom or give out stupid ass comments about what bloom is or isn't, said people get banned from the site, or have Ungoy feces thrown at them. Anyone here want to officially challenge me on the specifics of the Reach Blam! Engine, MegaloScript or tag data and fields in regards to this idiotic thing called "bloom"? No? GOOD! Case closed. Please lock this thread Spectral.

 

 

agreed

[Jhorse02]

Here we go again twin. If all bloom is is a visual aid go shoot a wall as fast as u can with bloom then take the dmr with no bloom and shoot as fast as u can and u will see it for yourself and then you and your programming skills are ****** because u are wrong!