John 117 : Above The Law

[SatanicBagels]

When dealing with with such situations as the Chief has to deal with, I think that any choice is justifiable. I remember a very good Jack Bauer quote from 24. Granted it's not the exact same situation and not on the exact same scale, but I think it's point is relatively similar. When it comes to such a large number of human lives there is nobody that can order you to make a decision that you believe would endanger or doom them. I'm sure nobody on these forums would follow orders if they believed it would result in a million deaths. If Master Chief honestly believes that Del Rio's orders would result in a large number of innocent deaths, then he is somewhat justified in his not following orders.

 

All personal opinion of course

 

These laws were written by much smarter men than me. And in the end' date=' I know that these laws have to be more important than the fifteen people on the bus. I know that's right. In my mind I know that's right. I -- I just don't think my heart could ever have lived with that. I guess the only advice I can give you is to try and make choices that you can live with.

 

[/quote']

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

The point was the Chief did not know his intentions at that time. All he knew was that the Didact was vulnerable and he wanted to squash him. That's not how the military works. Regardless of how sterling your jacket is, you're still a soldier with an obligation to duty, ONLY DISREGARDING DIRECT ORDERS when it puts your own well being in harms way or orders you to kill civilians. Things like that. And before you say anything about composer, the Chief didn't know any of the didacts plans to eliminate earth at that point in the story. He had just grabbed a pelican shortly after to intercept the didacts ship.

Actually, he probably had a good idea of the Didact's intentions. When Chief first awakens the him, the Didact goes on a long rant about how he hates humans and it isn't too late to stop them from claiming the Mantle. And didn't the Librarian talk to him about what the Didact plans to do? He may not have known the specifics, but he knew that the Didact's goal was the destruction of humanity.

[D-38 Boss]

The point was the Chief did not know his intentions at that time. All he knew was that the Didact was vulnerable and he wanted to squash him. That's not how the military works. Regardless of how sterling your jacket is, you're still a soldier with an obligation to duty, ONLY DISREGARDING DIRECT ORDERS when it puts your own well being in harms way or orders you to kill civilians. Things like that. And before you say anything about composer, the Chief didn't know any of the didacts plans to eliminate earth at that point in the story. He had just grabbed a pelican shortly after to intercept the didacts ship.

 

 

 

That's not military doctrine at all. If you're MIA and you're rescued you don't just have no chain of command, you fall under the chain of command to your rescuers. I don't know where you heard that but it's wrong.

 

 

You miss the main point of my post.

 

Follow order = Poopy storyline.

 

Disobey order and save all the peoples = Holy Crapdangle 5 stars

[ou7c45t]

I think john didn't follow Del Rio's orders because the captain seemed a bit unstable at the time. It was like he was on a power trip or something. that's just the feeling I got from everybody else that was in the room. even Palmer didn't follow his orders to arrest john, not that there's anything she could have done.

[ProudDrunkIrish]

He is no normal soldier but a super soldier than has saved the Human race twice, he has been MIA for years and only ever answers to those who have been placed in the chain above him by Lord Hood. He has always had a major role in decision making in previous games, so for him to take matters into his own hands in this game was not surprising.

 

Lets be honest who on earth or any human planet is goin to dare to touch their most powerful weapon.

[Baeztoberfest]

Yes but you're missing the point. No military works this way. No matter how decorated a soldier, marine, airmen, or sailor is, they aren't above the chain of command and general orders. No matter how stellar MC's jacket looks, he's still an enlisted marine with a chain of command.

[Caboose The Ace]

the thing is Baeztoberfest that chief knew if he didnt then the didact would compose earth so if del rio refused to help he would find a way to stop him resgrdeless

[Baeztoberfest]

the thing is Baeztoberfest that chief knew if he didnt then the didact would compose earth so if del rio refused to help he would find a way to stop him resgrdeless

 

The Chief didn't know what the composer was or how it worked. All he knew was that the Didact was after it. At that point in time.

[Vaulting♥Frog]

The Chief didn't know what the composer was or how it worked. All he knew was that the Didact was after it. At that point in time.

 

I am fairly certain that he met with the Librarian's AI fragment before the Infinity broke from Requiem. That AI gave him knowledge about what the Composer is and what it does. She told him what the Didact's goal is, the creation of the Promethean AIs and unlocked hidden genetic coding to rapidly improve him.

 

Thus he does have knowledge about what the Didact is going to do.

 

That being said, we have no idea what military protocols are so we dont really know if he was acting outside of military regulations or not. By todays standards quite probably. But I dont really want to get involved in that part.

[Baeztoberfest]

 

 

I am fairly certain that he met with the Librarian's AI fragment before the Infinity broke from Requiem. That AI gave him knowledge about what the Composer is and what it does. She told him what the Didact's goal is, the creation of the Promethean AIs and unlocked hidden genetic coding to rapidly improve him.

 

Thus he does have knowledge about what the Didact is going to do.

 

That being said, we have no idea what military protocols are so we dont really know if he was acting outside of military regulations or not. By todays standards quite probably. But I dont really want to get involved in that part.

 

That was the point of this discussion. Lol.

 

And no he didn't know what he was looking for. The librarian AI did unlock the untapped power in MC and they did reveal info about the knights but the composer was never discussed.

 

Until Chief saw it aboard the space station he was unaware what weapon the Didact was looking for and what it's size was or potential threat. All of this was still a mystery.

 

[Vaulting♥Frog]

That was the point of this discussion. Lol.

 

And no he didn't know what he was looking for. The librarian AI did unlock the untapped power in MC and they did reveal info about the knights but the composer was never discussed.

 

Until Chief saw it aboard the space station he was unaware what weapon the Didact was looking for and what it's size was or potential threat. All of this was still a mystery.

 

Umm she shows him a holographic display of the Composer.... watch...

 

[Baeztoberfest]

No I remember this but what he was looking for was something much smaller. Remember his conversation with the scientist where she said "unless you're a lot stronger than you look?"

[D-38 Boss]

Once again, we can argue about the probability that chief disobeyed orders on an unconfirmed threat. or we could realize that his insubordination was a plot device to show:

 

A: His connection to Cortana

 

B: His conviction to protect earth

 

C; Del Rio is a jerk face.

[Vaulting♥Frog]

No I remember this but what he was looking for was something much smaller. Remember his conversation with the scientist where she said "unless you're a lot stronger than you look?"

 

Was he aware it took the Infinity to move it? No. However he was aware of its scale and that it was moved some how. It would be logical to assume that the equipment used to move it would be at the station itself.

[Baeztoberfest]

 

 

Was he aware it took the Infinity to move it? No. However he was aware of its scale and that it was moved some how. It would be logical to assume that the equipment used to move it would be at the station itself.

 

Agreed.

 

And to bring it full circle, I'm not trying to duplicate the Del Rio thread, or get after anything like that. All I was saying was that from a military perspective and a chain of command that The Chief disobeying orders seems far fetched. And people's assumption that MC answers to Lord Hood alone is wrong. Especially for an MIA enlisted soldier no matter how prestigious they are. Especially since we have no idea what Lord Hoods military status is now. (Well maybe with detail aided by the books). Especially since Captain Del Rio wasn't a lower tiered commissioned officer like some lieutenant. It's not uncommon to see a 1st Sergeant get into some platoon leaders **** (1st lieutenant or hell 2nd lieutenant) because they work directly with a Captain. Even for an E-9 to fire back with direct disobedience just seems strange to me.

 

Cortana wouldn't have been "killed" like people are saying she would've been decommissioned through ONI. At no point did Del Rio say "Kill that AI". It was MC's job to hand over Cortana. Albeit they were friends, she's still military hardware requisitioned for use aboard frigate class interstellar space ships (The Pillar Of Autumn), and not the whimsical property of ANY spartan. No matter how much I love my M4 rifle, I can't just take that with me anywhere. Sure I can use it when it serves a purpose but if my CO asked for it, it's his no questions asked. We call that military cohesion. I trust my chain of command and they trust me. Now I'm not gonna hand my weapon off to some other specialist and hope they do the right thing. Hell probably not even my sergeant. But a CO is a CO.

 

Maybe that's a bad example (I'll admit to that beforehand) but you can see what I'm getting at. She fulfilled a purpose in Halo 2, and 3, but in Halo 4 he just took her because of his own personal feelings on the matter.

 

That example coupled with the direct disobedience of a superior officer would have been enough for execution according to the uniform code of military justice (UCMJ). Granted someone pointed it out earlier were not sure what they use in the future but I HIGHLY DOUBT insubordination would be tolerated in any armed forces.

 

To address the previous mark about him having a stellar record and saving the human race twice beforehand. I'll agree, NOBODY GOES HARDER THAN THE CHIEF. But... No matter how exceptional he is he is still a senior enlisted member of the UNSC. He's not Rambo. As such he should ACT that way. Part of being a good soldier is following orders whether you like them or not.

 

As to Dr. Halseys comment "What are you puppets or Spartans?" She is in no military position to decide what a good soldier is as she attains no prominent position or any affiliation with any enlisted or commissioned rank. She's not in the Army to put it bluntly. She can keep her civilian opinions to herself. Sure she developed the super soldier PHYSICALLY but she didn't MAKE THEM SOLDIERS. That was either born in them or it wasn't. The idea that a soldier is a rogue element that does whatever they want goes against every definition of what an army is comprised of. So no, Chief is not a puppet, he's a super soldier. Key word being SOLDIER. (Well, Marine but you know what I'm getting at.)

 

And to close, plot device? I can see this. Because this is the only explanation I can see why a senior enlisted would go rogue by himself disobeying everyone with stolen UNSC property on a hunt for an unknown enemy for no other reason than "that guy hates humanity; he needs to die".

 

Thus he is "John 117 : Above The Law".

[Vaulting♥Frog]

I knew what you were trying to do. Just staying out of that part. Only wanted to correct you in that John indeed did know what he was looking for, how big it was, what it could do and what the Didact's goal was....

[vStealthYx]

i was hoping for mc to own del rio

 

ok