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Site Poll 84: Do you want the REQ system to return?

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#1 UNSC Spartan-II

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 07:40 AM

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Hi everyone, Spartan here with site poll #84.

 

 

Last week we discussed whether Halo Infinite will be open-world or not, and there were some great points made by community members. Click here to view the last poll, #83.

 

 

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Do you want the REQ system to return?

 

 

Halo 5's REQ system is controversial, that's for sure. Some love it, some hate it. Frank O'Connor said in an interview at the start of this year that the REQ system is "well-liked", which caused quite a stir considering how many people in the Halo community are opposed to it.

 

The REQ system is something very new to Halo, who could have seen it coming? It's not a very unique idea, but it's something I would have never imagined coming to Halo. The main issue people have is that it can benefit users who have more money to spend on the game. Sure, there's no direct impact on your performance in Arena, but there can be in Warzone. I think the "unbalance" argument for the REQ system isn't a good one, because 343 integrated it really well and fairly. My problem is that it's boring, like really boring. Think Halo Reach's credit system, but you don't necessarily get what you want. I personally believe Halo 5's armour "unlocking" is the worst way in any Halo game out there. What if you just want this one set of armour, but the chances of you getting it depend on an RNG, and how many REQ points (or how much cash) you have to burn.

 

What's your stance on the REQ system? Stances, those are something else you can only get randomly by an "RNG pack"... Let me know whether you want the REQ system to return or not, and why.

 

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts,

Spartan out.   :yay:


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#2 RedStarRocket91

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 10:15 AM

I hate the REQ system with a passion, so put simply: no. A thousand times, no.

 

To be clear: I understand that post-launch support and content is necessary for the ongoing health of modern games, and that this costs developer time and money. I think it's perfectly reasonable that if we want the benefits of that post-launch support, we should be prepared to pay for it. And I do appreciate that it means the community doesn't end up divided according to individual purchases. It's possible to end up wasting money on map packs which you can end up never being able to play because none of your friends own them and the matchmaking pool in their dedicated playlists is too small to give you good matches in a timely manner.

However.

The REQ system is just repulsive. Let's leave Warzone aside for a moment, though we'll come to that particular tumour later: the REQ system is the only way to unlock cosmetics, outside of a very small number of armour sets which can be accessed through playing the game elsewhere. If you're like me, you probably enjoy armour customisation: settling on a look for my Spartan was one of the things I enjoyed most about Reach, and even in Halo 4, despitethe overall poor quality of most of its armour. But if you want a specific thing from Halo 5's armoury, then you're stuffed. I remember fairly early on, there was a piece of armour that I really liked the look of - I can't remember what it was now. If it had been Halo 3, I'd have had to do a specific challenge to get it: in Reach, I'd have had to save up my credits. But in Halo 5? Nope. The only way I can get that armour is to keep throwing my credits into the REQ system so that I can have a tiny chance of unlocking it. If I don't get it, then I might as well have just thrown the credits away altogether because I have nothing to show for it. No, Halo 5, I don't care that I've unlocked the Recruit Snot Pattern helmet, and the fact that you shove it in my face with a fanfare and glitter, as though it's something to be celebrated rather than a complete waste of my time, is just added insult.

And that was back before they even started diluting the REQ pool. Since launch they've added even more cosmetics, meaning my chances of getting something that I actually want have dropped from something like one in two hundred, to one in a thousand. It's not even that most of the armour and skins available are ugly as sin and that I wouldn't use them even if I were given them for free (though that, and the incredibly lazy approach to reskinning items certainly doesn't help). It's that, when I have a specific cosmetic that I actually want, I don't care about anything else, because it's not the cosmetic that I want. And the only option to guarantee I get it is to either grind like hell through all the crap in the REQ pool, or to cough up enough real money.

 

And let's not forget: the REQ system is further diluted by all the crap tied into Warzone. I have literally no use for this, as I'm not interested in playing a pay-to-win game, but the REQ system insists on filling most of its packs with Warzone-exclusive junk rather than actual cosmetics, further slowing down the rate that I can get wade through all the garbage to the armour I actually want. And the worst part is, occasionally it gives out certifications: which increase the chances that you'll get certain Warzone-exclusive things in your REQ packs. And you can't even get rid of them! Once you have them, they're permanently attached to your profile like little unresectable tumours, making it take even longer to work your way through the cosmetics since now you've got even less chance of getting one in your REQ packs.

 

Oh, and of course - the pay-to-win game mode is the only one where you can actually earn credits at any kind of speed, since playing the actual fun, non-pay-to-win game modes gives you very little. So unless you're happy to spend seven or eight hundred hours being everyone else's punching bag, your only option is to pay up if you have an armour you want.

I hate the REQ system. I hate everything about it. It's brought pay-to-win to Halo, it's completely destroyed player customisation and all sense of player progression, and of course it's an incredibly predatory system of real money gambling which is designed to deliberately ruin my game experience unless I spend even more money on the game. And you know what? It has't even fulfilled its supposed purpose! The DLC maps we've gotten have been of extremely poor quality, usually little more than lazy variants of existing maps, or variants from Forge, while the cosmetics we've gotten have set new standards of ugly. It's the worst kind of cash grab, combining pay-to-win with progression blocking and real-money-gambling, and it's one of the principal reasons why I gave up on Halo 5. It pains me awfully to say this, but the REQ system is in Infinite, then I won't be.

 

I just wanted some armour, man!


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#3 Guts

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 11:29 AM

Yes. The REQ system would be a welcome return. It works fine. Why would 343 throw away a system they worked so hard on? They shouldnt and I believe they wont. Although one change has to be made.

Adding the equivalent of "vidmaster" and so called "rewards" for beating the campaign on Legendary etc. Although the legendary "reward" is good, the other "challenges" are idiotic and stupid. They massively restrict and lock off armour from people. The "challenges" fun and difficulty apparently come from the tedious and boring "challenge" you face. Its a waste in my eyes. 343 has to keep the *entire* community happy.

The REQ system works fine as stated before. Although its so sad to see a pay to win system introduced into the multi-.....oh wait, this isnt Star Wars Battlefront or an EA game. Its so great to see a balanced and functioning system introduced into multiplayer. It doesnt lock armour behind multiplayer ranks and you dont have endlessly grind every day to buy the *left shoulder of a 6 piece armour set*. You can unlock armour much quicker than before. We dont need another Halo Reach credit "system".

I just wish more people in the community dont jump to conclusions. The amount of people who saw "micro-transactions", then rammed their fingers in their ears and began trashing the REQ system bothers me. I lost faith a long time ago after seeing this debate when people got mad at a satirical REQ explantion video.

Edited by Guts, 16 July 2018 - 07:57 AM.

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#4 I_Make_Big_Boom

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 12:04 PM

I think Halo 5 was the first real game I got into that had "loot boxes", so at that time it didn't bother me as much: they barely do even now. However, there's problems with the system that I can't ignore, and that need to be changed.

 

Anyway, here's some pros and cons to the REQ system (there's prolly more):

 

Pros:

 

1. Obtaining rare items is far easier

This is a debatable Pro. Setting money aside (because we know that usually always makes things easier), if you grind enough you'll be able to get the sufficient number of packs to get what you really want. I don't know the logistics of it, so I'm not sure exactly how long you have to grind, but I believe that it's not as bad as having to grind for armor in Halo: Reach. Almost everything is up for grabs, unlike Reach where most of the armor is locked behind a cR wall that everyone has to overtake.

 

2. REQs can be gifted

There's nothing like this in older Halo games; the ability to gift someone armor, weapons, what have you. I mean, you could transfer an Xbox profile to someone, but that's like, really antiquate.

 

3. Special, non-REQ armor still exists

Achilles, Olive,Timmy, and some 343 Fotus and Assault Rifle skins I think are the only ones, but that's still stuff you can't spend your way to get. 

 

 

Cons:

 

1 It's Pay-To-Win in Warzone

The "assistance" may be marginal, but having access to the most powerful weapons in Warzone because you have money - even if you don't utilize them correctly - makes it Pay-To-Win. Honestly, it's Warzone, so I didn't really care to begin with: Arena is still your precious, core Halo experience. If you've got enough skill you should edge out the rich kids, though the odds are stacked against you.

 

2. REQ drops are random (except in certain special REQs)

There's a higher guarantee you'll get something important with Legendaries and whatever, but you know, it's still randomized gambling. 

 

3. Most REQ items are decreased in value: Quality over Quantity

In order to make REQs work as a genuine Loot Box experience, 343 had to make a ****load of "filler" to be contained within. Most people agree that Seeker is a bad set, but I don't know what the hell they're on about: it looks FAR better than Pioneer, which nobody had **** to say about back in Halo 4. I don't agree that 343 didn't put any effort into most of the sets, since allot of them I really like, but I have to agree that having so much of it devalues the overall group. Not to mention, if you can get the most rare stuff by just paying for it, it undermines the achievement of getting that through hard work and dedication.

 

3. Loot Boxes prey upon the younger generation: Halo 5 is Rated T

Laws against minors gambling, bla bla bla, we all know what's going on with that. Multiple countries are seeking ways to regulate gambing to prevent Loot Boxes prominence, and REQs I think fall under the Loot Box umbrella.

 

 

So, how would you fix that? Well the obvious solution is to not have them at all, but I don't think they'll go away just like that. Still, my ideal solution is this:

 

Destroy REQs. The armor and weapon system returns to that of Halo: Reach where you earn credits necessary to buy stuff. However... there's an option to spend money for these sets, and in some cases, there will be big armor sets containing exact pieces. There are benefits to either buying a set, or unlocking it in-game: such as being given different variations of that same armor to ensure both camps feel special for having unlocked it with money or with credits. You would also make it so that either of these alterations cannot be achieved by the other camp, making that exclusive.

 

 


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#5 Jack Of Harts

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 04:38 PM

Honestly I get the appeal of a randomness system however I would like to see it MASSIVELY refined, not just done away with entirely. Instead of being broken up into bronze, silver and gold, I'd like to see more options.
Cosmetic Bronze: 3 common cosmetic items (weapon skins, armour skins, common armour, etc.)
Cosmetic Silver: 3 cosmetic items ranging from common to rare (at least 2 should be guaranteed to be uncommon or higher)
Cosmetic Gold: 3 Cosmetic items ranging from rare to above (at least 1 guaranteed to be higher than rare)
Cosmetic Legendary: 3 Cosmetic items at least Legendary
Cosmetic Mythic: Guaranteed 3 Mythics.
 

Also maybe even having the items divided into different REQ sets, so if you pick a certain set you're guaranteed 3 of the items from this set, for example the Helmet Set which would include all the helmets, and you're guaranteed to get three of them if you buy a Helmet REQ pack. Or a Weapon Skin set, so you're guaranteed Weapon Skins. These can be divided into Bronze, Silver, Gold, Legendary and Mythic. Of course, these are only examples. But I think giving the player options will give them a better chance at getting items they want.

 

Maybe also include a credits system, but the items would be considerably more expensive than getting them in a REQ pack. So a Legendary Cosmetic would cost as much as buying a Legendary Cosmetic REQ pack. So it would still give the player incentive to gamble, but if they don't want to then they can buy whichever items they want with credits.
However I would also like to see more challenge-exclusive items too.

And a separate set of options for Warzone (if they decide to bring Warzone back, that is) with the standard bronze, silver and gold system (with the latter 2 guaranteeing permanent unlocks) already in place minus the chance for any cosmetic items, and the microtransactions should be removed from the Warzone REQs to eliminate the P2W factor, just restrict the microtransactions to the cosmetic REQs. So I don't think the REQ system is a massively terrible idea, I just think it's implemented terribly at the moment and it shouldn't be the only method to obtain items.


Edited by Jack Of Harts, 15 July 2018 - 04:45 PM.

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#6 Twinreaper

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 11:27 AM

Although I have never played Halo 5 and I certaintly don't ever plan too, I have read/seen/watched enough comments and videos on the subject to be just as knowledgable about the subject as an actual player.  So if you want, take my comments with a grain of salt, or take them from as you normally would....aka "Twin knows his ****"

 

 

The REQ system appears at first concept to have been created as a way to try to keep Halo relevant in terms of the overcrowded and more popular FPS titles that the market is currently flooded with.  Do I have any problem with that idea or concept? No.  A game needs to naturally evolve and take on new concepts if it is going to survive.  Other titles like the mentioned Mass Effect, CoD, Fallout, Destiny, etc all have incorporated a "loot" system in some way as a way to keep players playing, and to entice new players into the franchises.  That's the whole point of any system like Halo's REQ Packs.  We all want a game that we can personally invest in and showcase our particular asthetic and passion for said title.  But in the case of Halo 5, it was doe wrong, and it appears that 343 has decided to ignore the larger portion of the gaming community since they have a habitual habit of ignoring any and all negative criticism.

 

Halo 5's Warzone is a straight P2W scenario, no doubt.  What mnakes it even worse is the fact that you have to pay for DLC that provides no real incentive on it's own, and further decreases the % changes of obtaining wanted items.  Unless your the super collector of all things available in-game, which those players are in the very small minority, it serves no motivation for the majority of the community.  It reduces your chances of getting those handfull of items, and at the same time, floods your inventory with worthless junk that you have to sift through just to find certain pieces of flair you want to use.  And the grind is pathetic.  As mentioned before, you are expected to jump into Warzone and literally face respawning every 3 seconds without any real gameplay, just to rev up your currency to be able to buy more REQ packs...which ultimately leads to the % bs and the utter frustration from never getting the item you want.  Again, Halo took a standard of this generations FPS mechanics and tweaked it to be a unique Halo thing, but failed miserably.

 

Any time a paid item has a direct effect on a standard multi player feature with no balance or advantage disabling enacted....it spells doom.  Let's take Destiny for example.  In Crucible (pvp), any level or weapon/armor advantage that you have in the standard open world does not exist.  Damage is dealt based on the weapon class, and all players have the same strength shields and health.  There is no advantage to a veteran player who grinded up for a sweet op exotic, versus the newbie who wants to jump in with a base green or blue weapon.  Said newbie has just as much a chance to win as any other player, as long as that player uses teamwork and has a sufficient enough of skill and map layout knowledge.  This mentality and gameplay does not exist in Warzone at all.  Now before you start scratching your head and insist Warzone is not PvP...it certaintly is.  Is it ranked, no.  But the purpose of PvP is to pit Players vs Players in a match of skill.  PvP was never meant for it to be a e-***** contest of paid loot.  PvP should always focus on SKILL.  The REQ system negates any skill as it doesn't matter how skilled you are if you drop into a match where everyone on the opposing teams spawns with straight out game breaking items simply because they wasted money on REQs.  At that same time I do realize that players should be rewarded for spending real money, but not rewarded in that they become gods and ruin everyone elses fun.  The REQ system should have instead been a "pay for the items you want" vs "grind, earn and maybe get what you want".  I've never seen a more broken and unbalanced system for rewarding players to actually stay with a game and play. 

 

I really hate to say this, but this is where Destiny actually got the reward system right.  You find different items for free all over the place.  You are rewarded with engrams which give you a % chance to get a Legendary Item or Exotic Item you want.  You can buy those engrams in-game with in-game currency and the time you spend grinding ends up being more meaningful since the items have an effect on everything but the small PvP stuff.  Sure they do have a "silver" currency you can buy with real money to get flair items, but thats the extent.  Nothing you buy with real money gives you a power edge over other players.  It's all about skill, map layout and teamwork.  With also the occasional secondary effects of weapons for kills...(Graviton Lance's Void orbs come to mind).  But the sentiment is there, it's fair, balanced and not a P2W model and rewards players much more than any other game to date.  It's like Borderlands on steroids!

 

And that leads to the last point.  Where are the achievments and rewards for doing fantastic impossible things, or completing a ridiculous challenge in order to gain armor or flair?  Vid Masters were a great way to inspire teamwork and keep the campaign going long after you replayed it to death.  The PvP was refreshed in this way as you actually worked towards something that you were guranteeed to get, and based on skill and teamwork not everyone could easily achieve it, so you felt good about what you spent your time doing.  I dont see a whole lot of H5 players actually citing how good and accomplished they feel playing the game.  If Halo wants to bring back the REQ system as it is now, it's going to kill off what is left of the game and there will be no more future Halo games.

 

In order for Halo to get it right, they need to bring back Vid Masters in some form (Destiny has Milestones), and or create an ehnaced version of Reach's Daily Challenges to keep things fresh.  it wouldn't hurt to also make the Halo campaign aq little more open world with flair, armor and weapons obtainable within that open space like Borderlands, Fallout and Destiny.  The business model they are using now has failed and left a lot fo people not wanting to return to Halo. 

 

Lastly let's talk about the maps.  I know the maps have nothing to do with the REQ system, but it is tied directly to the type of talent and minds that are currently working at 343.  As mentioned earlier and as I have been saying for nearly 5 years now....343's map design and commitment to good quality maps is absolute garbage.  I've seen newbie HEK uses create a better looking detailed map with better layout on CE recently.  Most if not 3/4 of all maps, are Forge variants, which is about the biggest slap in the face you can give to a community after asking them to fork out $20-$30 for DLC.  The way they market and reveal the maps is shady at best.  They show you just enough to get you into thinking it's a brand new map with cool asthetics, only to be fooled when you jump in and see that it's a Forge variant.  ANY time a DLC bundle gives you more Forge maps than actual new maps...there is inherently a huge problem in the creativity department, point blank.

 

As a side thought, maybe if 343 hadn't released a bunch of broken games to begin with, they wouldn't have to divide their development team up so much and more quality focus could be given to the actual title in development.  It's just an opinion, but it seems to me that Microsoft is stretching 343 way to thin across too many projects.  This has already proven to lead to a broken unbalanced game that fails to impress or keep player populations in tact.


Edited by Twinreaper, 17 July 2018 - 11:37 AM.

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