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i disagree with buffing the BR to the level of the DMR. not too mention the 3 sources of data ive found is the DMR ttk is at least 1.6 seconds while BR is at least 1.8 i could see maybe reversing them tho. light rifle has a very fast ttk at scope, its unscop could use maybe a slight buff, but not much, its kinda balanced with games fastest ttk for precision weapon at long range while unscoped its the slowest. carbine is kinda funky

atm assuming top skill, precisions are better. why? their only limiting facot IS skill, or the persons ability to make the shots land at medium/close range. to a extend a automatic weapon user has to do this too, especially with burst fire at medium range. however, no matter how skilled you are you cant land hits at long range with automatic weapons, obviously there is no REAL penalty for hitting htem at close range with precision weapons, that again...cant be overcome with player skill. to fix this imo automatic weapons need straight up faster ttk in close range combat, therefore precision weapons get punished for letting automatics get close, just as automatics are punished everytime they peek out of cover.

perhaps allow shield regen at a diminished rate. i know in campaign ive used to it reflect hunters green bolts back at them, possible to do taht with any waepons multiplayer?

ya true, i understand why they did the third person thing, but its far too jarring

it has no drawbacks that cannot be overcome by player skill. ive also made no mention of my win/loss ratio ingame, nor have i ever. i also said, more then once that bloom is just one option, not the only option. so your doing a good job of putting words in my mouth bud! but i get it, you dont want your edge weapon to be touched, so your jumping on me. thats ok too, your not hte first, nor will you be the last.

no, the BR already has a rea of effect in medium range, the DMR encroaches on that, ergo, nerf the DMR. hell its a marksmen rifle, not really meant for medium and def not close range. yet it out perfors the BR, a weapon suited to those distances, better. you buff the BR, you just have 2 OP guns.

bloom is just one idea, however ill say this. you were only punished when you tried to shoot faster then the bloom reset. so it punished hasty players only. sounds like a clone of hte plasma pistol at that point, without the range or hte ability to stop vehicles. you know whats the same across competitive players? they want an edge. if a game was truly balanced competitive players would HATE it because they cant gain leverage outside of personal skill. now, maybe reach implemented bloom in a sloppy/bad way, but id ont think it was exactly a bad thing. I found the bloom promoted control over spray and pray. the only drawback is if someone was really lucky and there spray and pray paid off it killed the guy using controlled fire. but ive said it before bloom is just one option, and not a required one. hey if its OP change it, ive just yet to experienced being killed by it by much outside melee range. it is possible that lag played a part in your perception of the range as well (possibly, not certainly)

that is actually a horrible idea, and the idea of a person who cannot handle feeling "less" in any situation. do you drive a big truck? there are times when guns need buffed, and times when they need nerfed. just buffing everything will create a snowball effect until we are just oneshotting eachother. just give everyone inf ammo binary rifles while your at it.

but dude...the BR is EASIER to use, that makes it balanced...right? but in seriousness i dont think its way too OP, but it does need slight adjustment.

i can agree to that. bloom is just one idea. Now i can say i need a bigger sample size sure. but at this point ive moved past specific kill times and am looking at more general balance of precision vs automatic weapons. perhaps with time we can get some definitive answers, this is really something 343 should provide to the community considering they want a competitive environment. unkown variables is bad for that. again if you want to argue easier you arent arguing balance. not balance in its entirety anyways. jsut cuz BR is easier doesnt mean its better in certain areas, the DMR still out performs in the areas the BR are supposed to have a leg up in. heres one thing i ultimately try to avoid (and fail at times) cuz it doesnt provide much in terms of the balance argument, how skill/skilless a weapon is. at least with the starting loadout guns as the gap isnt enough to warrant inferior competitive play to eachother. Obviously a gun that can shoot around walls or thru them and follow the enemy and kill the entire team when you fire is OP. but like i said starting loadout guns dont have that kind of gap. I think there should be a skill rank system seperate of the level system personally. but the second part of your number 6 is biased paranoid conjecture with no basis in reality. its like saying the game was more popular cuz the graphics were worse...makes no sense. SWAT changes the way the game plays with no shields. dont expect SWAT to be balance AND regular format to be balanced. SWAT is more for fun. if you want to run in straight lines spamming your shots thats your problem? there will always be campers /shrug, not much you can do about it sweet, go play it then and stop trying to put it in halo. first....bloom alone DIDNT cause that loss of subscribers, just cuz you and "everyone" you know hated it doesnt mean it was the cause of that. again you take a bit of biased paranoid conjecture and spin it as facts that you have no way of knowing on any acceptable level. you do it way too much its kind of irritating. and again, bloom was just one idea, there are others. there are people telling others to adapt or die, and others wanting some balance done (right or wrong depending on the person and there reasoning), both answers are right. you adapt to the gameplay, but if adapting to the gameplay involves deteriorating of the games variety and strategies then balancing needs implemented. atm if we just adapt or die, most of the time eveyrone will just use DMRs. which is bad.

I def dont want it to become a UP gun or anything, it definitly doesnt need a big nerf. tho i disagree bloom wasnt random, i mean, it was random in the same way spread is random. it punished people who were too hasty, they had to time there shots to get more accuracy. it was actually more skill based in that regard beacuse the accuracy was even more in controla nd reliant on the player then simply lining the reticule up with the head.

I just want to know which one would be best for a agressive close to mid range playstyle using things like the AR.

its simple math man, DMR slightly outplays all other precision weapons from starting loadout by either performing better in one area, while performing close enough in another without any drawbacks. yes to a degree skill overcomes, but saying its all up to skill just results in one dimensional play where the only way to beat them is to join them, at that rate we can remove over half the weapons from this game right now.

bloom didnt contribute to reaches failing, the fact that it was a prequal did somewhat, the gaming worlds climate, PR, other games coming out at the time, etc. at most you can say is they implemented bloom in a sloppy way. bloom isnt random, it punishes someone for taking too many shots in quick succession, you wait until the "bloom" lessens and shoot again, easy concept. it isnt random, it punishes hasty players. and until we get more people with the same experience as you with the boltshot i dont htink its OP, ive never been killed by it much outside of melee range.

i tried to find the most recent vid (didnt want to take the chance of one with old info that wasnt accurate) and one that looked fairly accurate and not just standing there with a stopwatch. and I admit i couldnt make much use of the spreadsheet he showed as the type was small. care to ellaborate on that? even if they were the same kill time, thats not good enough as the DMR can outrange the BR. so cherry pick away i also think your confusing "high skill utility weapon" with "OP" hell its a term you made up anyways. you call it high skill, tho it has next to no bloom, high fire rate, generous hitboxing at long range, and decent bullet magnetism all to aide the user in getting those shots in. in that respect the LR is more skill dependant then. once again you just want your cake and to eat it too, you claim OP guns like CE pistol made the game great...no, it made the game one dimensional and punished new players. you can go on about how skillfull you are cuz you use the DMR and such fact is DMR needs a weakness, a drawback. simply increasing TTK on precision weapons by as little as one bullet while keeping automatic weapons the same would allow player to showcase there skill in more ways then "i aim good derp". it will make a push/pull gameplay, where the autmoatic weapons try to get in close and the precisions try to stay at range. the one with better aim AND better positioning wins. if you want duck hunter, go play that

i dunno double? AND reduce its recharge? id say maybe a 33% increase in distance covered, but ins ame amount of time (speed up animation). then add a ability so it scales off yoru current speed, so if you use it while sprinting, it gets a distance increase. keep the recharge rate the same.

instead it reflects on any game and any weapon where the situation can apply. if this game wants to be competitive AT ALL, they need weapon balancing

weird, everything ive seen suggests the light rifle has a faster TTK then the DMR when scoped but slightly slower ttk then BR when unscoped.

it does have a fairly generous hit box but the DMR has a faster time to kill then the BR by almost .2 seconds

thats strange ive actually heard the opposite that the BR out performs most of the time in SWAT but if your gonna start balancing the guns themselves around such niche environments your asking for trouble, better to remove a gun from it then to balance it and risk screwing the balance up in the regular format.

lol i was tired sue me but, the problem is you think the only deciding factor should be your aim. there is more to that in a 3d environment where you are capable of movement. positioning, flanking, etc, all important. if you dont have weapon balance, and rely soley on aim as the only viable skill determinable factor then the gun that rewards that the most will be the only gun used. Thsi is why that gun, and others, need a defineable drawback that cant be overcome with skill. the easiest, and most sensible way is to make weapons more effective vs others at certain ranges. atm assuming skill/aim, the DMR simply doesnt have a drawback, saying its hard to land the shots in CQC with a DMR isnt a valid reason for balance simply cuz it can completly be erased by player skill. again you call me al iar, im not, DMR kills in roughly 1.6 seconds, BR 1.8. ive seen info stating AR is 1.7, but im not sure i trust it yet, been scouring for more info on that one. you dont want a debate, you want your cake and to eat it too, its obvious to anyone with an iota of critical thinking skills. /sigh, your mad, its ok, but your also wrong, and in the wrong.

you know, you can call me a *******, you can call me biased, and even ignorant, but you wanna call me a liar you overstep the line. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9cknUKURhc uploaded not long ago. has pretty good frame data. even as a 5 shot kill its 1.6 second kill time vs the BR's 1.8. its not game theory its balance, if you balance soley around aiming/shooting then you need all the guns to be the same, or the one that rewards that the most will be the only weapon that matters. but ill also end this post with two things. one, your are not the end all statement on what halo is, so saying it aint halo is about as narcisistic as you can get. and the only empirical evidence you brought on with your comments on Reach was that you dont know the difference between biased data and facts.

aww getting scared 343 will actually balance it? or sick of me posting that it needs balanced? anyways, ill restate cuz i didnt on this thread, the DMR does not need a big nerf, a very slight one will bring it inline with other precision weapons. atm the BR kills in 1.8 seconds, the DMR 1.6 (ive seen a couple youtubve vids where AR ttk was 1.7 seconds, tho im still looking for better testing vids) (there is some decimal places in there i know). the fact taht the dmr outranges the BR while having a faster ttk even in shorter ranges is bad balance. there is a number of ways to address this. one obvious one is slow the fire rate enough so that its ttk is about 1.8, probably should be 1.9 if you go this route. This way BR has an actual place in medium range combat rather then just being subpar to the DMR. the light rifle will still have its niche BR'esque unscoped and DMR'esque scoped. slight worse then the BR, slightly better then the DMR. the carbine possibly the most skill oriented one cuz of the ttk on it but it requiring quite a bit more aim and more shots. now this causes a problem, suddenly the light rifle might just be a better choice for long range maps (tho it technically is already, it just fails worse in close range with the slower TTK). So instead of lowering the TTK, lets make it work more like a designated marksmen rifle. that is to say, when unscoped, give it more bloom/spread. now you still have your DMR at long and some medium ranges, but to accurately kill unscoped is going to be harder. honeslty i think it was poor idea to give precision users 4 weapons and autos 3, not cuz i want 4 guns lol. but because if you balance around 3, then add a 4th, you run the risk of it either being too weak, too strong, or just a copy of another gun. i doubt some people will like these ideas, or any idea that involves bring the DMR back slightly, some people have admitted to wanting there OP gun to stay.

I honestly think firepower is somewhat redundant. if your in a map where you want the AR, bring the magnum for backup precision shooting. If you take the DMR bring the boltshot for its charge close range shotgun effect. in a level dominated by vehicles, bring your plasma pistol.

atm assuming skilled player there is NO poitn in haveing the BR aside form maybe swat gametype. it also is within .1 seconds of AR CQC kill time. its honestly rediculous for hip firing considering its a DESIGNATED MARKSMAN RIFLE. I get its supposed to be long range, but imo needs a slightly longer kill time more compareable to the BRs 1.8 seconds.