No Bloom

[Lᴜᴋᴇ]

How does bloom give more time to aim? There has been bloom in every halo game. Did you complain, or even notice, in Halo 3?

[VeteranOND]

Luke, because if firing a weapon with bloom correctly requires you slow down and wait unti the reticle is small, therefore giving you more time to aim. With ZB, there is no need to wait giving you less time to aim and be accurate, therefore SKILL takes over. Aiming, strafing, peek shots, ghandi hops, etc.

 

And no, despite what anyone says, bloom was not in every halo game. Halo CE: I aimed for he head, headshot. Halo 2,3: I aimed for the head, headshot. Reach: have to wait for the retcile to get small, maybe headshot. ZB: I aim for the head, headshot. Period. Where I am is where i should hit. Period. End of story.

[CandiBunni]

And no, despite what anyone says, bloom was not in every halo game. Halo CE: I aimed for he head, headshot. Halo 2,3: I aimed for the head, headshot. Reach: have to wait for the retcile to get small, maybe headshot. ZB: I aim for the head, headshot. Period. Where I am is where i should hit. Period. End of story.

 

That's where you're wrong. "Bloom" (or what most people mean when they refer to "bloom") was, in fact, in every Halo title since Combat Evolved. If you want proof, I could always point Twinreaper in the direction of this thread to give you the specific data to prove it, you could message him yourself asking for the data, or I could search around and find the thread in which he's already posted said data. It was not the same version that was in Reach, but there was a version of "bloom" in every Halo title.

[VeteranOND]

I dont what that arrogant guy has to say. "error angles" or bloom, whatever. In halo 2 or 3, i aimed at the head, guess what? they died. ALWAYS. Not exactly in halo reach. I feel sorry for everyone that likes reach and says bloom is better. Halo 4 comes out soon, and we will see who has more skill. and guess what, its gonna be the people that play MLG or ZB.

[CandiBunni]

I dont what that arrogant guy has to say. "error angles" or bloom, whatever. In halo 2 or 3, i aimed at the head, guess what? they died. ALWAYS. Not exactly in halo reach. I feel sorry for everyone that likes reach and says bloom is better. Halo 4 comes out soon, and we will see who has more skill. and guess what, its gonna be the people that play MLG or ZB.

 

You don't care about what he has to say? Well it's fine if you don't agree with his opinion, but you have to agree with actual data pulled from the game. You have to agree with fact, and here is that post I was talking about.

 

 

http://www.343indust...dpost__p__53237

 

Are you still going to try to tell me that "bloom" wasn't in every Halo title? Before you or anyone elses says something: This is regardless on whether or not it was as prominent in previous games as it is in Reach. What I said, and all that I said was that "bloom" has been in Halo since Combat Evolved. That's a fact, and you have to accept it.

[Three Bad Boys]

You don't care about what he has to say? Well it's fine if you don't agree with his opinion, but you have to agree with actual data pulled from the game. You have to agree with fact, and here is that post I was talking about.

 

 

http://www.343indust...dpost__p__53237

 

Are you still going to try to tell me that "bloom" wasn't in every Halo title? Before you or anyone elses says something: This is regardless on whether or not it was as prominent in previous games as it is in Reach. What I said, and all that I said was that "bloom" has been in Halo since Combat Evolved. That's a fact, and you have to accept it.

 

Nobody is saying there wasn't any kind of aiming error involved in previous Halos. However, it was to a MUCH smaller extent, such that people actually died consistently if shot in the head while injured. Furthermore, multikills and individual game domination were actually possible in previous titles, which is virtually nonexistent in default Reach. Bloom slows the game down to an excruciatingly painful pace. It's take soooooo long to kill just one person, that even if you outsmart an entire team, it does no good whatsoever. It's so incredibly boring to play.

[CandiBunni]

Nobody is saying there wasn't any kind of aiming error involved in previous Halos. However, it was to a MUCH smaller extent, such that people actually died consistently if shot in the head while injured. Furthermore, multikills and individual game domination were actually possible in previous titles, which is virtually nonexistent in default Reach. Bloom slows the game down to an excruciatingly painful pace. It's take soooooo long to kill just one person, that even if you outsmart an entire team, it does no good whatsoever. It's so incredibly boring to play.

 

If you read up above, you will see in one of VeteranOND's posts that he did just that. "And no, despite what anyone says, bloom was not in every halo game" - VeteranOND

 

I already stated that what I was saying is regardless of whether or not it was to a larger or smaller extent in previous games. I made it clear that all that I was saying is that "bloom" has been in every title. Not if it was as extreme as it is in Reach or not. Simply that it was in previous entries. That's it. You didn't need to say anything on that subject.

 

Multikills are still completely possible in vanilla Reach, they're just a lot more difficult to get. This is due to having to time your shots more than in previous game, as well as the game just being slower paced overall.

 

I never said anything on whether or not bloom slows the pace of the game down. I understand that having to control the "bloom" more so than in previous titles slows the game down.

[Baby Boo]

Ms. Mystic, that's the problem. I think I speak for most of us that don't like bloom when I say we specifically don't like it because we like a fast paced match that's fun to play. Bloom slows the game pace down and sorta ruins the fun. I think that's what we're trying to get at.

[Baby Boo]

I think 343 could do something like this:

 

Everyone knows that the playlist section marked 'competitive', correct? Well, they could add another playlist section, with the same playlist, but marked with something like 'competitive ZB' that way people can play their prefered bloom setting in their preferred playlist. I think it's a pretty decent idea, if you ask me.

[Three Bad Boys]

Ms. Mystic, that's the problem. I think I speak for most of us that don't like bloom when I say we specifically don't like it because we like a fast paced match that's fun to play. Bloom slows the game pace down and sorta ruins the fun. I think that's what we're trying to get at.

 

Yes, that's what we're trying to get at. And you're right about VeteranOND. I, on the other hand, did realize that a similar concept occurred in previous Halos, which is perfectly fine. If it works, it works. But in my personal opinion, Reach's bloom does not work, and I believe most people with above average Halo talent will agree. It slows down the game to such an extent that it is essentially broken.

[Three Bad Boys]

As a prime example, if you go to my montage in my signature and go to 5:15, you will see what no bloom can do. That situation would never have happened with bloom, ever. I would still have been fighting those guys 10 seconds later.

[Twinreaper]

As I have illustrated numerous tiimes, there is a fine line between Zb and bloom. First off, I respect your competative standpoint. Second, there has never been any type of weapon outside the sniper rifle, that had zero bloom. Zero Bloom gametype in halo is the odd man out on that one. TU Reach is the first Halo title to date, to take away all error from a weapon period. In all the games I spent playing in halo 1, 2 and 3 noone ever complained about the BR or magnum firing spread...which is exactly or if not more, than the DMR's according to actual data pulled from the tag itself. I think it is more of a case of players not being able to shake the retracting and expanding reticule more than the spread itself. The reticule is not perfect and does not always show you the correct radius to expect shots in. I have always ignored it and played like it wasn't there.

[Azaxx]

As I have illustrated numerous tiimes, there is a fine line between Zb and bloom. First off, I respect your competative standpoint. Second, there has never been any type of weapon outside the sniper rifle, that had zero bloom. Zero Bloom gametype in halo is the odd man out on that one. TU Reach is the first Halo title to date, to take away all error from a weapon period. In all the games I spent playing in halo 1, 2 and 3 noone ever complained about the BR or magnum firing spread...which is exactly or if not more, than the DMR's according to actual data pulled from the tag itself. I think it is more of a case of players not being able to shake the retracting and expanding reticule more than the spread itself. The reticule is not perfect and does not always show you the correct radius to expect shots in. I have always ignored it and played like it wasn't there.

 

and still people complain when you put the facts out...also i like your new Signature

[Three Bad Boys]

and still people complain when you put the facts out...also i like your new Signature

 

I'm not complaining about facts. I'm complaining about the consequences of Reach's bloom and its resulting slower gameplay. I am not denying the presence of error angles in previous Halos. While I hate to admit it (lol), I have played a TON of competitive Halo with my buddies with every iteration, and it's irrefutable that headshots were more reasonable in past Halos while being based on the raw talent of aiming and strafing, and gameplay was faster and required quicker thinking.

 

Ever since zero bloom came out and my friends and I were able to play 2v2 custom games, the competition of our friendly rivalries has shot up many times. It's so much more entertaining now since it is actually possible for someone to truly dominate the game and get many double kills using perfect aiming (aka skill) and proper strafing. The speed of play and need for quick thinking MUCH more resembles previous Halos than default Reach. With 5-shot kill DMR (although I don't know the exact specifics), it is pretty similar to 4-shot BR in Halo 2/3 from the standpoint of kill length. I would love the opportunity to play 2v2 and rumble pit zero bloom in matchmaking.

 

This is not even addressing the decision of returning power weapons in the Team Doubles playlist to former status. I greatly dislike this current one clip and slower respawn approach to power weapons in doubles. This seems to make map control and power weapon control meaningless. I'd much rather have at least 8 bullets when I pick up a sniper, preferably 12, and have it spawn more often. Someone may say that this allows for too much domination on the part of one team...well good! If they're that much better where the other team can't even get their hands on a power weapon (which everyone has an equal chance of getting at the start), then they should be on spawn trap.

[Azaxx]

I'm not complaining about facts. I'm complaining about the consequences of bloom and its resulting slower gameplay. I am not denying the presence of error angles in previous Halos. While I hate to admit it (lol), I have played a TON of competitive Halo with my buddies with every iteration, and it's irrefutable that headshots were more reasonable in past Halos while being based on the raw talent of aiming and strafing, and gameplay was faster and required quicker thinking.

 

I never specifically said you, i meant in general

[Twinreaper]

Yes I feel your pain in regards to the power weapons and limited amount of clip when picking up a weapon. I wish I could explain their reason to do this, but I cannot find any good reason they put out or could come up with on my own. It seems to a certain degree that perhaps they did this to include players in a more "Emphasis on Teamwork" environment...except that it failed and they have yet to return it to it's former status. Teamwork only really works when you have a good players who actually use a mic or the Kinect mic ability. Teamwork in Halo does not work when you get paired with players whom you do not know. If it's friends you game with or even certain players you have played with many times....it comes down to being able to read eachother's movements and that works just fine....but you cant go and change things like Three said...without there being negative effects.

 

I myself am a semi-casual gamer. I say semi-casual only because I play less than even a casual guy at this point in my life. Bloom and map issues for me never really occured only because I never had the chance or time to really delve into Reach all that much. Usually when I do get the chance to play, I play campaign or Firefight only because of the lag and pairing of players that I get. I like fighting AI more than I do real people. it gives me a better chance to actually do something rather than be a punching bag. I am sure that if I had spent more time playing Reach, that I may have the same issues with as you Three, but I do not. I do respect everything you say on the topic and I ma glad that we can walk away in the end and agree to disagree respectively.

[Three Bad Boys]

Yes I feel your pain in regards to the power weapons and limited amount of clip when picking up a weapon. I wish I could explain their reason to do this, but I cannot find any good reason they put out or could come up with on my own. It seems to a certain degree that perhaps they did this to include players in a more "Emphasis on Teamwork" environment...except that it failed and they have yet to return it to it's former status. Teamwork only really works when you have a good players who actually use a mic or the Kinect mic ability. Teamwork in Halo does not work when you get paired with players whom you do not know. If it's friends you game with or even certain players you have played with many times....it comes down to being able to read eachother's movements and that works just fine....but you cant go and change things like Three said...without there being negative effects.

 

I myself am a semi-casual gamer. I say semi-casual only because I play less than even a casual guy at this point in my life. Bloom and map issues for me never really occured only because I never had the chance or time to really delve into Reach all that much. Usually when I do get the chance to play, I play campaign or Firefight only because of the lag and pairing of players that I get. I like fighting AI more than I do real people. it gives me a better chance to actually do something rather than be a punching bag. I am sure that if I had spent more time playing Reach, that I may have the same issues with as you Three, but I do not. I do respect everything you say on the topic and I am glad that we can walk away in the end and agree to disagree respectively.

 

I appreciate you feedback. I think it is blatantly obvious at this point what is going on here. Casual players like bloom due to slower gameplay and less reliance on perfect aiming, while more advanced or competitive players prefer zero bloom. I have no problem with someone being either type, but I just want it to be out there in the open, and not have people trying to beat around the bush coming up with complicated explanations. Both aspects can be entertaining. I can see how firefight and campaign tend to be more laid back, whereas competitive players literally could not care less if there was even a campaign or firefight at all. We solely want a video game where the more skillful player wins every time. At that point, it just boils down to which audience 343 wishes to please. Naturally, the casual community is much larger, but it would be nice to have one or two more competitive-minded playlists thrown in. This way, we can all be happy.

 

Edit: Don't get me wrong. 343 has done an AMAZING job catering to the competitive community with the implementation of TU playlist and regular MLG playlist updates. So I am extremely grateful for that, and of course I will always have custom games for zero bloom. It would just be nice to experience that level of competition in something other than 4v4 via matchmaking for when all of my friends can't get together.

[drednot12345678]

I have a very simple quesiton for 343i. Why is there still bloom in any playlist at all? I thought we finally convinced the masses that this was by far the worst decision Bungie ever made. I am exremely grateful that zero bloom gametypes are available for us in the TU playlist, MLG playlist, and custom games. But I would like to play in other playlists, such as Double Team and Rumble Pit, without having to play on the ridiculous default Reach settings. Is there really anyone with a beating heart who prefers the dumbed down, unpredictable, skill-inhibiting, and pace decreasing nature of bloom gametypes? If you are out there, please let me know. I would love an explanation.

 

And yes, I realize 343i is happily working on Halo 4 right now, and I have no idea how complex of an implementation this would be. If there are really those out there who prefer to play with bloom (which for the life of me I cannot comprehend), then could there at least be a Double Team and Rumble Pit zero bloom playlist? 2v2 is probably my favorite playlist, but it's flat out unplayable in its current state. Not only is the bloom unbearable, but one starting grenade and slower power weapon respawns with only one clip...really? Whose idea was that? That makes it INCREDIBLY boring.

 

This would be awesome! Thanks for hearing me out!

ok three your not the only person that plays reach, bloom is the best thing that happen to the game and ZB is the worst. Bloom makes it much more real if your asking for zero bloom and you think that bloom is a crap idea then you might as well ask for perfect auto aim and one hit kills anywhere on the enemy you are just mad because bungie made reach make you work more for you kills and zero bloom is so stupid if you have no bloom then the game is really playing itself for you so plz stop trying to ruin the game for others by saying take bloom off in all playlists and actually try and aim and work for your kills.

[Three Bad Boys]

ok three your not the only person that plays reach, bloom is the best thing that happen to the game and ZB is the worst. Bloom makes it much more real if your asking for zero bloom and you think that bloom is a crap idea then you might as well ask for perfect auto aim and one hit kills anywhere on the enemy you are just mad because bungie made reach make you work more for you kills and zero bloom is so stupid if you have no bloom then the game is really playing itself for you so plz stop trying to ruin the game for others by saying take bloom off in all playlists and actually try and aim and work for your kills.

 

Okay, first of all please use grammar so we can have a proper conversation. Second, you are probably not very good at this game or you would not have said any of the things you just said, so please read my previous post and you will see the conclusion I have reached. Third, none of the things you said even remotely make sense. Fourth, I would argue (and everyone from the competitive community would agree 100%) that zero bloom is by far the best thing to ever happen to Reach. Fifth, I am not asking for one-hit kills; rather, I desire a game based solely on aiming and strafing. Finally, if you believe more domination on the part of the better player ruins the game, then I am truly sorry. That's why I merely wish for an additional playlist or two for zero bloom, not every playlist.

 

Edit: Work for my kills? Are you kidding me? Do you want to know what working for you kills means? How about having to hit 5 shots in a row perfectly on the head, or else you're dead. If you so much as miss a single shot, you're going to get owned. Nothing makes you work more than that. It requires constant perfection (aka skill).

[Twinreaper]

Since I never really venture out into mainstream MM...are you serious?!? They give you at max 4v4 for a competative taste of battle and thats it? Did they change this with the TU or has it always been that way?

[Three Bad Boys]

Since I never really venture out into mainstream MM...are you serious?!? They give you at max 4v4 for a competative taste of battle and thats it? Did they change this with the TU or has it always been that way?

 

Currently, zero bloom matchmaking is available in the TU playlist and MLG, both of which are 4v4. The whole point of me making this thread was to request a Team Doubles zero bloom playlist, and maybe even a rumble pit should 343 be so generous. I knew before I even created this thread that lesser skilled players would try to claim bloom takes more skill. No matter how much logic I used or 1v1 challenges I offered (all of which I knew bloom enthusiasts would not accept because they know deep down zero bloom takes more skill), I knew some people could not be convinced. That's why I am just pushing for one or two more playlists.

[Baby Boo]

Yeah I totally agree. I do realize the slight aiming error in previous Halo titles, but like bad boys said, it's just to random and pointless. I still think my suggestion above is reasonable.

[Baby Boo]

On the previous page, I mean.

[Wumpa Warrior]

Reach was not built with ZB in mind. It screws up the game mechanics wayyy too much.

[Baby Boo]

Like I said, they could make the existing playlist sections and make some new playlist sections under the original ones, but the ones that are new could be ZB and then everyone gets what they want.