Call of Halo - breaking down how 343 copied...

[Bloody Initiate]

OP is dead wrong about a couple things. Halo 3 DID have an experience progression system, it just didn't do anything. It didn't do anything in Reach either (Unlock armor = nothing). Also Reach's Arena system was completely inadequate as a ranking system, at least the last I was playing anyway. I stopped playing a few months into Reach's life so they could have cleaned it up later.

 

Otherwise yeah they ripped of CoD a whole helluva lot. I don't mind getting sprint and personal ordinance but I hate killcams, I hated the opening and closing of the campaign, and I hate how most of the maps are designed to continually loop back on themselves and leave you open from a dozen different spots (The purpose of this type of map design is to keep players from locking down a part of the map and dominating. They're forced to run around instead of doing the smart thing and setting up a defensible position. It's CoD. It's also very uninteresting because no part of the map is especially important or exciting, and even if it was you can't pause to enjoy it. It's just a paintball court, and it's not map design at all, it's just insertion of scenery and structure instead of design).

[Real Talk]

[brick wall of text]

 

Bottom line this game is like cod but i feel they rushed it to try and beat cod and that was a major backfire Online records prove it.

 

I enjoy halo but we need change.

 

I saw them putting those features mainly to take away from CoD's crowd. I mean they have had the biggest sales for what? A couple years in a row now. Halo had to take their players somehow, so they tried to take the best of CoD. I have high expectation for Halo 5, hopefully they can bring in some original ideas.

 

As for the campaign thing, I dont see why people would replay the campaign more than twice. I find most the value in MP since its what takes up most of the players time. (Not that I dont like a good campaign. Beat Dead Space plenty of times game is beast.)

 

P.S. CoD 4 > MW2

[N1AK]

1) Maps. The new maps are far, far, far and away inferior to previous iterations of the game. Rush said it before but I'll say it again. I miss Midship and Lockout. Those, with the original longest, may be my favorite maps of all time.

 

I loved Midship and Lockout, generally I'm a small map fan and I still thought the H4 maps are good. I would have loved to have another small symmetrical map (Haven sized or smaller) in the mix but the ones provided really seem to be balanced, with lots of options and paths. I've played a hell of a lot of Haven, Adrift, Complex & Solace and consistently enjoy all of them; I'm still finding more and more ways to use the map and it doesn't feel like every battle ends up focusing on the same flashpoint(s).

 

2) Unbalanced/unfair matches are good for the franchise. You'll never convince me that people that are level 1205398234 with additional perks is a good experience for the person on the other end of their rifle. You'll never convince me that starting a game 3v4 was the right move. You'll never convince me that players should be thrown into a match that is already in progress and they are losing 220-40. IT IS A WASTE OF TIME.

 

I actually agree with some of this. Personally I think the level / perks argument is mostly nonsense. Many of the people I'm coming across at very high levels are actually pretty rubbish; they tend to get lots of kills but even more deaths, imo because that is how to get more XP. Besides having more play time level really doesn't mean very much. That said uneven starts and putting people into hopeless matches really seem like mistakes to me. I very rarely got frustrated by wait times or quitters back in H2/H3 yet now I've won & lost objective games because of dodgy starts and it is really annoying getting dropped into a match hopelessly behind.

 

343 could do many things to discourage quitting and I genuinely think some of them would work but no game devs seem to want to handle the issue. There could be a quit MM delay penalty: If # quits / # of games is greater than 10% then when you quit you can't MM for 2 mins, higher than 20% is 5 mins etc for example

 

3) Ranking system works/exists. I have not been on Halo waypoint to check ranking nor do I care to be to view the ranking - the idea to split the user between two systems and force them to go to Waypoint to even view it is absolutely moronic.

 

I also agree that anything less than a visible ranking in the game is a poor solution. There really isn't a good reason not to have it and it is a massive bugbear to many, if not most, remotely serious players.

[rush0024]

Man this thread just won't die. I traded in H4 a while ago, but I still do care about Halo and want a real Halo game so thats why I check back here on occasion just to see if 343 is doing anything constructive or if anything has changed (which it hasn't). Thank you all for posting and keeping this thread going. Maybe someone important from 343 will see this and see the direction this game is going and a light bulb will go off. I have lost hope for this game, but I still have hope the Halo 5 will be great and that they will learn from their mistakes.

 

Maybe instead of slitting your throat talking to me, you can get off the couch and live your life instead of criticizing the little pet-peeves in the game. You need to calm down. Halo always told a great story, they always work on the campaign first. I think the forum needs to educate you. Bullying a member like calling him "retarded" is a way you can get banned. I don't think you should monitor the forums because i don't think i would like to see you with your foul language still here.

 

i do agree with some of your points. but a big reason why people buy halo is for the campaign. like you said. multiplayer is a replay ability. i personally like both the parts of the game. but now that Halo 4 has Spartan Ops. it's like a second campaign.

 

Wasn't really calling you "retarded," I don't know you. But the way you were thinking was retarded. There is a difference. That statement you made about Halo never being about the MP and that they clearly make Halo games for the campagn... ranks among the dumbest things I've ever heard. Sorry if I offended you, but it's just dumb.

[rush0024]

Ok IGN giving H4 game of the year. I am a huge Halo fan and I kept the game for 2 weeks. I think Microsoft paid off some people.

[rush0024]

Thought I'd drop in and check on the status of Halo 4. It appears things have gotten worse since I turned in the game and stopped posting here. I wonder how many people have changed their opinion who spent so much time defending it when the game came out. I've had to resort to giving Activision more money and playing Black Ops 2. As General Hummel says in The Rock.... damn you 343 for forcing me into this position.

[dalin89]

All of the following are standard features that the COD series has been using, or not been using. Most of them have been in the games since Modern Warefare back in 2007.

 

Custom Loadouts

COD - Yes

 

Halo CE - No

Halo 2 - No

Halo 3 - No

Halo Reach - No

Halo 4 - Yes

 

Instant Respawn

COD - Yes

 

Halo CE - No

Halo 2 - No

Halo 3 - No

Halo Reach - No

Halo 4 - Yes

 

Perks

COD - Yes

 

Halo CE - No

Halo 2 - No

Halo 3 - No

Halo Reach - No

Halo 4 - Yes

 

Individual Perks Copied

COD Slight of Hand - Halo 4 Dexterity

COD Extreme Conditioning - Halo 4 Mobility

COD Overkill - Halo 4 Firepower

COD ability to change care packages - Halo 4 Tracker

 

Theres probably more but I'm moving on...

 

 

Ranking System

COD - No

 

Halo CE - DNQ

Halo 2 - Yes

Halo 3 - Yes

Halo Reach - Yes (I'm counting Arena)

Halo 4 - No

 

Weapon unlocking system

COD - Yes

 

Halo CE - No

Halo 2 - No

Halo 3 - No

Halo Reach - No

Halo 4 - Yes

 

Join in progress

COD - Yes

 

Halo CE - DNQ

Halo 2 - No

Halo 3 - No

Halo Reach - No

Halo 4 - Yes

 

Starting Games Uneven

COD - Yes

 

Halo CE - DNQ

Halo 2 - No

Halo 3 - No

Halo Reach - No

Halo 4 - Yes

 

Kill Cam

COD - Yes

 

Halo CE - No

Halo 2 - No

Halo 3 - No

Halo Reach - No

Halo 4 - Yes

 

No Friendly Fire

COD - Yes

 

Halo CE - No

Halo 2 - No

Halo 3 - No

Halo Reach - No

Halo 4 - Yes

 

Weapon Drops (Care Packages/Ordinance)

COD - Yes

 

Halo CE - No

Halo 2 - No

Halo 3 - No

Halo Reach - No

Halo 4 - Yes

 

Default Sprinting

COD - Yes

 

Halo CE - No

Halo 2 - No

Halo 3 - No

Halo Reach - No

Halo 4 - Yes

 

XP Progression System

COD - Yes

 

Halo CE - No

Halo 2 - No

Halo 3 - No

Halo Reach - Yes

Halo 4 - Yes

 

 

Anyone got anything else to add? I came up with 16 direct things that Halo 4 has copied off COD. I'm sure there is more.

 

The more I play the game, the more I realized how bad it is. There is nothing to play for because there is no ranking sytem. There is no penalty for quiting so there are players constantly coming and going, games are constantly being started with uneven teams. This is not fun. I have like 15 Sparton Points and what am I suppossed to do with them? That was very poorly designed. Almost every game I am playing players that have played the game 2 times or even 3 times more than me. And since I did not get any special editions of the game, I can not get any of the other specializations that other players are using. So I am a level 47, and I constantly am playing against players who have special perks that I don't have any access too. That is not fair. Halo was built on being competitive and balanced with all players being equal. No one has any advatage over the other. It all comes down skill and teamwork. NOTHING ELSE. The core elements that made Halo so special are no longer present. This is Call of Halo.

 

Also if your going to add a killcam, at least make it worth properly. The killcam is a joke and just needs to be removed. Do they not test this stuff before they launced the game? I have not seen 1 killcam where the player who was shooting me actually shot me in the killcam. That doesn't happen in COD. The only thing that happens when I watch the kill came is get pissed off because of how awful it is. Just take it out for the love of god.

 

Only one thing to say to 343, and I am quoting Bill Madison.

 

343...I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your souls. This game did not evolve. I don't want to kee hearing that crap. This game copied of COD. Not only did they copy of COD does right, but they also coped of what COD does WRONG.

 

Well done. Just as what you said!

[Halo Pony]

343 Industries didn't take the ideas of COD they simply toke the ideas from the fans and made it better. COD is making up excuses because,Halo 4 is better.

[rush0024]

343 Industries didn't take the ideas of COD they simply toke the ideas from the fans and made it better. COD is making up excuses because,Halo 4 is better.

 

If that's true then why are so many "fans" unhappy and why has the population declined faster than any other Halo game? I will answer this for you since you probably didn't take the time to read over all the posts in this thread. Answer: Because the main formula that made the first Halo games so great and so competitve has been changed or are no longer there. CoD has had a major influence on the Halo series. Why? Because CoD is the best selling video FPS game of all time. So in order to compete with that, 343 felt that they needed to change aspects of the game in order to appeal to the modern gamer who usually plays CoD. Why? Because it is ALL about money. And since CoD is the king, everything is going to be compared to it. That's just the way it is not only in gaming but in anything else in this world. Heres the fallacy in their thinking. Halo was great and was it's own game, and thats what made it so good because it was nothing like CoD. It was already successful before CoD. If they would have stayed true to Halo's roots, the population would not have died out and eventually CoD will self destruct as long as their is a better quality game to play because they put out the same product every year and they don't fix a damn thing.

 

Halo 4 is a failure. 343 is a failure. The CSR system isn't even out yet but that's already a failure. Any changes they make now is too late. 343 didn't even do a beta test. They don't know what their doing. People from 343 have even came out and said we made alot of mistakes. The game can "evolve" without changing the core elements that made Halo so great. If you like the game then fine but your opinion does not stack up against the points I made and is really just incoherent. You say that 343 did not take any ideas from CoD.... was you in their meetings or were you involved with the games design? If you take your mouth off 343's **** for a second and take a step back you can easily see how this all breaks down -- There are so many things have changed in Halo 4 that has made the population decline very rapidly, and all the changes (I pointed them all out in the first post) are similar and can be directly compared to the forumla CoD has been using for years , and CoD franchise has been dominating the FPS market for years and has made ALOT of money doing it, and everything in this world is about being relevant and successful in order to make the most amount of money.

 

Do th math, or really in this case just use some common sense.

[Kevin James M]

Lol. funny how the OP had nothing to do with gameplay... and everything to do with customization elements that are (as they should be) standardized elements of any AAA FPS.

 

You don't like customization and more gameplay elements/options? Go play super mario bros.

[TornadoFlame]

:/ the gameplay is fast paced just like cod. No more tactics just run for 1 kill die repeat Enjoy till game over win lose who cares 1.7k points regardless

[HappehNinja]

Know your place, get back to CoD. Your argument is pointless. As if CoD was the first game to include guns... oh, please.

[TornadoFlame]

Know your place, get back to CoD. Your argument is pointless. As if CoD was the first game to include guns... oh, please.

this statement is pointless. Whats that upset because fans are expressing themselfs about a game you enjoy? ill just insult them and compare idoitic things with them to look cool.

[Kevin James M]

:/ the gameplay is fast paced just like cod. No more tactics just run for 1 kill die repeat Enjoy till game over win lose who cares 1.7k points regardless

 

Lollll. NOOWWWW I GET IT! all the people who complain are simply TERRIBLE AT HALO 4 and CANT GET OVER IT!

 

It all makes sense now.

 

As for me, I popped on for a single amazing Slayer match yesterday and went 26/6.

 

Eye am the greetest!

[HappehNinja]

"fans are expressing" "insult them" "compare idiotic things" "look cool"

 

Don't push me. I'm not here to engage on unnecessary arguments with anybody. Who's insulting who? I might have been a little reckless back there, but I know darn well there is no insulting there. Compare idiotic things? Who's the one who's comparing CoD with Halo here? Not that CoD is an idiotic thing anyway. Trying to look cool? Who do you think you are? Don't play with my temper.

[TornadoFlame]

Lollll. NOOWWWW I GET IT! all the people who complain are simply TERRIBLE AT HALO 4 and CANT GET OVER IT!

 

It all makes sense now.

 

As for me, I popped on for a single amazing Slayer match yesterday and went 26/6.

 

Eye am the greetest!

this is a funny statement. i played the new community forge playlist and went 40 and 3 on simplex flag While having the flag in my hand for 5minutes because of silly teammates with no mics. I'm pretty sure i'm not bad at halo and i still Share my opionon on this game. i can run around with a Ar and go 25+ kills without trying.

 

Don't push me. I'm not here to engage on unnecessary arguments with anybody. Who's insulting who? I might have been reckless back there, but I know darn well there is no insulting there. Compare idiotic things? Who's the one who's comparing CoD with Halo here? Not that CoD is an idiotic thing anyway. Trying to look cool? Who do you think you are? Don't play with my temper.

\

i seem to have pushed a button please remenber this is a forum. You seem to just be posting before reading. Look at it from another way and not just a Oh there talking bad about my game time to defend it. Not trying to be rude but Come on look at it another way and not blindly if thats how you accutaly feel no reason to make such a idoitic comparision with the guns comment then brah. People can go in depth about there complain but nope it hurts your game to the rescue!! there are some things i disagree and agree with with this topic But From a marketing move halo did mimic cod gameplay and stuff because COD is a successfull franchise Its a smart business move but it didn't really work out.

[MCPO Mayh3m]

Calm down guys. Please do not make me or another mod lock this topic.

[HappehNinja]

Just trying to defend myself. Sorry.

[Bloody Initiate]

Just a few things to get back on topic:

 

They DID mimic CoD, it was NOT smart business.

 

Here's why it's not smart business:

 

If you copy someone else's product you sell it for CHEAPER, not the same price.

 

By selling it for the same price they pretended they had a more original game.

 

What you have then is them departing from the things that made Halo unique in order to copy another franchise, failing to net the other franchise's sales numbers and then failing to keep their own audience.

 

That's what happens when you copy someone, you lose your own identity without gaining theirs. You end up in between and an inadequate represenation of both yourself and the object of your mimicry.

 

How did they mimic CoD? I'm tempted to just look through my own posts and copy/paste some stuff, because I'm tired of typing this stuff over and over.

 

What it comes down to is they decreased your capacity to influence your own fate within the game while giving you gambling options to better your odds. They gave you credit at a casino, it's technically money, but you can't really use it except to gamble.

 

They weighted the odds heavily toward getting one kill then dying (6 second shield recharge delay, circular maps + instant respawn + sprint for everyone + no grenade pickup w/o a perk + Promethean Vision keeps you from hiding + faster kill times but more shots to kill, and more).

 

Then they gave you the option to spin the wheel when you summon power weapons from the sky.

 

"Spin the Wheel and hope you get a good weapon!"

 

Needler + Speed Boost + Pulse Grenades!

 

"Oh no! Oh well, you can try again after scoring what you scored so far + 30% of what you scored so far! Look at that guy on the enemy team! He got a beam rifle! You could be him! Just 9 kills to go, even though you have starting weapons and they have beam rifles, you can do it!" Soldier on soldier.

 

Combine the above with taking the commitment out of the game and the rewards for it (No quit penalty, Largest experience amounts come from game completion not victory, Join in Progress tells you "It's OK if you want to quit") and the low learning curve (Weapons are very easy to use and kill faster than ever before, thus anyone can kill more quickly than ever before decreasing the amount of time you have to react and influence your fate), and YES, it starts to look a lot like they copied Call of Duty.

 

It is exactly the same? Hell no, and I never said it was. Did it take WAAAAAAAY too much from CoD? Hell Yes. It's a game about running and dying without thinking much, which is exactly what CoD is like. You even have the humiliating kill cams showing you not only how directly 343 copied CoD, but that 343 actually failed to do something very simple like copy CoD properly (Kill cams are wildly bad).

[ProudDrunkIrish]

I had to give up reading the responses as they all seem a little narrow minded... did they copy stuff? well yes they did.. from who?? probably more than one place... most likely source??? most likely CoD being the biggest fps seller...

 

Now that is a mixture of fact and logic, yes many people called for many things, I asked for them to include big pink rabbits that we could ride into battle but them not being there proves they do not have to include every recommendation.

 

I believe the statement made by the poster has a lot to do with the loss of individuality that was Halo, it had its own features that were made and designed specifically for the game and they really worked...

 

Now we see the addition of many new things (new to halo, old from some other game) and yes people who played other games a lot may have said I wish halo had this but we can forget they were designed for a different type of game. Now people said the game had to evolve and maybe it did but not all branches of evolution end in success (history has taught us this over and over). The simple fact is some of the features are good and some are bad while some were just not necessary! Halo has now become a game made up of the good, the bad and the ugly features of halo and other games mashed together.

 

Halo was unique and that made it special, features like respawn times, fixed weapon spawns, friendly fire and skill based ranking systems were the essence of the game, they all in their own way made it great and are now all gone!! The addition of kill cams, SR system made no odds and were not needed. Sprint was a good addition but now means never again will we see some of the greatest types of maps made (guardian, the pit), ordinance drops was good on paper but has made a campy fps, this is more due to players style than 343 but meh. Custom loadouts with perks are so so in my opinion, they have good and bad aspects to them, personally I would prefer the fixed weapon starts (perks could be included by all means).

 

Stop hating the poster for stating facts and accept changes were made some were copied and some failed to improve the game at all. Now something copied that works is ok by me but to defend additions that make the game less in any way is just being stubborn.

[Kevin James M]

this is a funny statement. i played the new community forge playlist and went 40 and 3 on simplex flag While having the flag in my hand for 5minutes because of silly teammates with no mics. I'm pretty sure i'm not bad at halo and i still Share my opionon on this game. i can run around with a Ar and go 25+ kills without trying.

 

Soooo i guess your "one kill run around and die" statement was just baseless complaining for the sake of grouping in COD with Halo... which is silliness...

 

If people are going to complain, they should at least pretend to be consistent.

[HappehNinja]

So you guys are saying Halo 4 copied CoD, but Halo Reach didn't? Even so, CoD isn't the only game of it's kind out there, and I frankly don't see much similar content on Halo 4, besides the perks. The ordinance drops are nothing like CoD's care package, since the care package sends in a special "toy", if that were the case. Besides, I don't see any mountable vehicle action on any current multiplayer CoD.

[TornadoFlame]

Soooo i guess your "one kill run around and die" statement was just baseless complaining for the sake of grouping in COD with Halo... which is silliness...

 

If people are going to complain, they should at least pretend to be consistent.

Stop it lol. you fail to understand Maybe you haven't played past halos?. instead of having your own opionon be open about it instead of closed minded because you enjoy the game otherwise its useless talking to you the game could be cod with some name changes and you'd probably say it wasn't cod =D

 

So you guys are saying Halo 4 copied CoD, but Halo Reach didn't? Even so, CoD isn't the only game of it's kind out there, and I frankly don't see much similar content on Halo 4, besides the perks. The ordinance drops are nothing like CoD's care package, since the care package sends in a special "toy", if that were the case. Besides, I don't see any mountable vehicle action on any current multiplayer CoD.

i only compare h4 to cod because cod is a successfull franchise... Nothing more. Perk,instant respawn, when something comes from the sky thats random i consider it a care package giving us 3 options we get to choose isn't that different to me anyways. I've played most cod and halo and The second i picked up halo 4 i knew what was going on I had friends who never touched halo And watched me play and constantly were laughing at the cod remake. go up to a friend whos not a big fan of halo whos plays cod and let him watch you play infinity slayer you would be surpized. Cod has no reason to copy halo because look how popular cod is the makers of cod understand if something works don't change it 343 has yet to find this one out. We can pray in halo 5 or updates.

[Kevin James M]

Stop it lol. you fail to understand Maybe you haven't played past halos?. instead of having your own opionon be open about it instead of closed minded because you enjoy the game otherwise its useless talking to you the game could be cod with some name changes and you'd probably say it wasn't cod =D

 

You said (...and I quote:)

 

:/ the gameplay is fast paced just like cod. No more tactics just run for 1 kill die repeat Enjoy till game over win lose who cares 1.7k points regardless

 

Then when I explained that you suck, you said (...and I quote again:):

 

this is a funny statement. i played the new community forge playlist and went 40 and 3 on simplex flag

 

You sort of took apart your own argument. In any case, you lied at least once.

 

Then, you had the nerve to say...

 

instead of having your own opionon be open about it instead of closed minded because you enjoy the game otherwise its useless talking to you the game could be cod with some name changes and you'd probably say it wasn't cod =D

 

To which I loled.

 

I submit to you that it is YOU who is the closed minded one, and YOU aught to keep an open mind going into this conversation, because it is YOU (yes, you) who has a problem with the game to begin with.

 

And you can rest assured that I have been playing Halo since CE was released in 2002 (or some odd 1 million years ago). Judging by your use of the word "brah" I will also submit that I am older then you, and have likely been playing more competently then you for a greater number of years...

 

But I digress...

 

For you to say that this game "copied COD" is moronic. Yes, some gameplay elements (that exist in every other AAA shooter... for a reason) have been adapted. Welcome to the world of THINGS CHANGE! The core gameplay experience is still a world apart from COD. Different pace, different strategies, completely different aesthetic appeal... the list can go on. If you don't like loadouts and running and ordinances and wild Spartan fun times, then tough! Your not going to get what you want, no matter how much you complain.

 

I am pretty good at both games. If they were anything like each other, I would probably play them both. But I play Halo.... because its different, and I like it?

 

Dont like my opinion? Suck lemons.

[HappehNinja]

Of course CoD is a successful franchise, it's basically the only game people play nowadays. People don't like to think outside the box anymore... apparently that became "too mainstream".