The Gravemind is Not What You Think it Is

[Did4ct]

the flood and the precursors are actually of the same species. i think that the precursors are an evolved form of the flood ,and after the forrunners rebelled against the precursors, the precursors had to evolve again from a less complex form of thier species, or the flood that we know. i think it may also be possible that since the precursors were the first know beings in the halo universe, they may have created the forerunners to use as hosts becuase the flood is a parasite. they would have had no food source so they would have to create one. Or, the precursors wiped out all previous life that they could use as hosts, so they created the forerunners. but this is a very interesting and debatable topic to discuss

 

I like this theory but how did you conclude that the Flood and Precursors were of the same species? (Other than the Gravemind saying, "I am the last Precursor.")

[Veer Zamamai]

the flood and the precursors are actually of the same species. i think that the precursors are an evolved form of the flood ,and after the forrunners rebelled against the precursors, the precursors had to evolve again from a less complex form of thier species, or the flood that we know. i think it may also be possible that since the precursors were the first know beings in the halo universe, they may have created the forerunners to use as hosts becuase the flood is a parasite. they would have had no food source so they would have to create one. Or, the precursors wiped out all previous life that they could use as hosts, so they created the forerunners. but this is a very interesting and debatable topic to discuss

 

Have you any evidence stating that the Precursors and the Parasite are the same? I don't think that the Forerunners would have worked with them.

[drunknmasta323]

the flood and the precursors are actually of the same species. i think that the precursors are an evolved form of the flood ,and after the forrunners rebelled against the precursors, the precursors had to evolve again from a less complex form of thier species, or the flood that we know. i think it may also be possible that since the precursors were the first know beings in the halo universe, they may have created the forerunners to use as hosts becuase the flood is a parasite. they would have had no food source so they would have to create one. Or, the precursors wiped out all previous life that they could use as hosts, so they created the forerunners. but this is a very interesting and debatable topic to discuss

 

The only way I could see your Precursor/Flood as one species working is based on an interpretation of The Mantle, which was the Precursor's creed. It translates to preserving all life basically at all costs. The way I could see the Precursors being flood is if they evolved to believe that the only way to preserve all life was to assimilate all species into one, which is the flood. This could fit your theory that the forerunners fought the precursors (which there is evidence against that possibility) due to them believing The Mantle meant to keep individual species separate and find a way to preserve them at all costs. This would create a Precursor/Flood v Forerunner/Host war.

 

With that said, there is no evidence the forerunners fought the precursors. In fact, the reason ancient human technology advanced to the level it did was because they integrated precursor technology with their own. This was also how the forerunners became advanced. So if that were the case, then the forerunners didn't have advanced technology to defeat the Precursors/Flood. they gained it over a long period of time after the precursor's were extinct. Also, as has been stated, the flood also absorbs memories of their hosts, so it's obvious the flood absorbed precursors or at least one precursor at some point in halo history. just as the flood, once a gravemind is evolved, knows about forerunner history and ancient human history. because they fought and absorbed those memories.

[Did4ct]

The only way I could see your Precursor/Flood as one species working is based on an interpretation of The Mantle, which was the Precursor's creed. It translates to preserving all life basically at all costs. The way I could see the Precursors being flood is if they evolved to believe that the only way to preserve all life was to assimilate all species into one, which is the flood. This could fit your theory that the forerunners fought the precursors (which there is evidence against that possibility) due to them believing The Mantle meant to keep individual species separate and find a way to preserve them at all costs. This would create a Precursor/Flood v Forerunner/Host war.

 

With that said, there is no evidence the forerunners fought the precursors. In fact, the reason ancient human technology advanced to the level it did was because they integrated precursor technology with their own. This was also how the forerunners became advanced. So if that were the case, then the forerunners didn't have advanced technology to defeat the Precursors/Flood. they gained it over a long period of time after the precursor's were extinct. Also, as has been stated, the flood also absorbs memories of their hosts, so it's obvious the flood absorbed precursors or at least one precursor at some point in halo history. just as the flood, once a gravemind is evolved, knows about forerunner history and ancient human history. because they fought and absorbed those memories.

 

That seems thought out but how would the Flood have created the Precursor artifacts. It is the Forerunner's belief that they were created by the Precursors. The Precursor/Gravemind says to the Didact, "I am the last of those who gave you breath and shape and form." How could this be if this Precursor was the Flood the whole time?

[drunknmasta323]

That seems thought out but how would the Flood have created the Precursor artifacts. It is the Forerunner's belief that they were created by the Precursors. The Precursor/Gravemind says to the Didact, "I am the last of those who gave you breath and shape and form." How could this be if this Precursor was the Flood the whole time?

 

I have seen this quoted a lot on these forums as some sort of evidence of something. To me it looks like the flood pre-dates forerunners. It also seems as if the forerunners were engineered into existence by some other species. If that's the case, how were the forerunners engineered? Did spores play a role in it or did an ancient species who engineered them get assimilated into the flood collective and therefore, its memories into The Timeless One's consciousness? I believe precursors and flood were different, but they both were in existence prior to forerunners. Not sure how or why. If the forerunners had a political uprising that gave way to creating the halo rings (master builder being the political winner and didact being the banished loser); and modern human civilization (unsc) had an uprising on various planet systems; also most of the covenant species had civil wars at some point in their history; precursors probably had one as well. if they did, then that could have led to their extinction. but that's all speculation.

 

When you look at it, The Mantle, would demand that precursors keep some form of the flood alive and archived. The forerunners had either no idea the flood existed or had lost that part of their history. So it seems that the flood couldn't be precursors as they were re-discovered by ancient humans who were searching for precursor tech. Meanwhile forerunners had found and integrated lots of precursor tech but did not discover the flood until after they were at war with ancient humans who had whole worlds taken over by flood. so if we assume the flood pre-dates forerunners, then they mystery of what The Timeless One told Didact should lead Halo into a story of how forerunners and/or humans were created and what that has to do with the flood. Sounds interesting.

[Did4ct]

(which there is evidence against that possibility)

 

Your former statement may be valid, but what evidence exists stating that the Forerunners didn't fight the Precursors?

[Victory Element]

i am getting a little tired of all this back and forth, and theories being thrown at each other. lets think about this.......the flood wont even be in halo 4 and the precursors are extinct. This means that no information about these topics will be revealed in halo 4, so nothing will get solved. This information could come in handy for halo 5(if it involvethe flood), but nothing is getting done here. And now that i think about it......... this topic probably doesnt have anything to do with halo 4. emer9ency ca11, i know you started this topic and i find it EXTREMELY interesting, but the fact is, this wont get us anywhere with halo 4. I dont mean this in any offensive way, im just trying to speak the truth about this whole topic

[Ryu♥Hayabusa]

The only thing is that the construct Guilty Spark was talking to was a Covenant A.I. It plainly says so in the description of the terminal.

[Did4ct]

i am getting a little tired of all this back and forth, and theories being thrown at each other. lets think about this.......the flood wont even be in halo 4 and the precursors are extinct. This means that no information about these topics will be revealed in halo 4, so nothing will get solved. This information could come in handy for halo 5(if it involvethe flood), but nothing is getting done here. And now that i think about it......... this topic probably doesnt have anything to do with halo 4. emer9ency ca11, i know you started this topic and i find it EXTREMELY interesting, but the fact is, this wont get us anywhere with halo 4. I dont mean this in any offensive way, im just trying to speak the truth about this whole topic

 

Thanks for the honesty. Since the Flood will not be a part of Halo 4, this Precursor may not be either, but I do believe this will be a major, if not the central theme of the series seeing how important the Flood is to the Forerunner story, and seeing that the name of the book written, Primordium, is a term used to describe this Precursor/Gravemind.

[Victory Element]

Thanks for the honesty. Since the Flood will not be a part of Halo 4, this Precursor may not be either, but I do believe this will be a major, if not the central theme of the series seeing how important the Flood is to the Forerunner story, and seeing that the name of the book written, Primordium, is a term used to describe this Precursor/Gravemind.

 

ya, i think this will eventually play a role in the halo games or maybe a novel will come out. i never expected to have anything to do with the forerunners when i started playing the halo games, but here we are, knowing they will be in halo 4! maybe the same will happen with the flood/precursors in halo 5 or 6.......all we can do is wait

[Did4ct]

all we can do is wait

 

all we can do is wait,

until that date,

or we can speculate,

on what would be the fate,

of the series we don't hate.

[Victory Element]

all we can do is wait,

until that date,

or we can speculate,

on what would be the fate,

of the series we don't hate.

 

you should be a poet

[Did4ct]

you should be a poet

 

You know it

[Victory Element]

You know it

 

you know what, i like you man i'm going to send you a friend request on xbox when i get a chance..... but im on vavction italy for the rest of july.......so it will be a while

[Azeraph]

The precursors created the flood then gave themselves over to it,one could say they were trying to bring about the mantle through unity.

 

The forerunners rose up against their creators once they found out that they were inline for deletion,a failed experiment and humanity was the next in line for testing.

 

There is more ways to communicate than just telepathy,i would say that the flood is a pheromone creature and can pass massive amounts of data through one flood form though it takes awhile before it reaches the point of emerging gravemind.

 

I personally think that not all game character quotes from halo 3 can be referred to as solid evidence.it was a developing story at the time and alot has been written to explain things that didn't quite gel.

 

Humanity are forerunner children,re-engineered by the lifeworkers to take their place if the halo's were fired.

[drunknmasta323]

The precursors created the flood then gave themselves over to it,one could say they were trying to bring about the mantle through unity.

 

The forerunners rose up against their creators once they found out that they were inline for deletion,a failed experiment and humanity was the next in line for testing.

 

There is more ways to communicate than just telepathy,i would say that the flood is a pheromone creature and can pass massive amounts of data through one flood form though it takes awhile before it reaches the point of emerging gravemind.

 

I personally think that not all game character quotes from halo 3 can be referred to as solid evidence.it was a developing story at the time and alot has been written to explain things that didn't quite gel.

 

Humanity are forerunner children,re-engineered by the lifeworkers to take their place if the halo's were fired.

 

1. Flood was engineered by precursors or so it seems, although there is nothing that states they willingly "gave themselves over" to the flood. especially since every other intelligent lifeform in the halo universe has fought the flood (covenant, humans (2x), forerunners).

 

2. ancient humans found and fought the flood before forerunners knew they existed. so humans weren't the next in line. the human-forerunner war was began because of ancient humanity's reaction to the flood. once humans were defeated, the forerunners found out about the flood and began fighting them as well.

 

3. Pheremone theory is interesting, but the gravemind being able to communicate with forerunners, humans and covenant suggest telepathy between species once that species has been assimilated into the flood conscious. so because humans and sangheli had already been overrun by flood, gravemind was able to then understand human and sangheli brain structures and language and therefore communicate with them . this suggests telepathy.

 

4. all game quotes from halo 3 are not cannon. a lot at the moment is based on user interpretation.

 

5. humanity was around when forerunners were around. they were considered beneath forerunners by most. then they upgraded their technology and neared the technological level of forerunners. they were not re-engineered by lifeworkers to take forerunners place, although there may be some tampering by the librarian for post-halo firing. no one is sure about that. also, any integration of alien technology or knowledge into the spartan program is unknown.

[Did4ct]

*The Flood are also back in an infection gametype in 4(They can't completely do away with them because they will come back in 5 and 6). This is another thing that could prove that the forerunners are not the main enemy of the trilogy.

[Chemiclus]

Have you any evidence stating that the Precursors and the Parasite are the same? I don't think that the Forerunners would have worked with them.

 

An excerpt from the Conversation between the Didact and the Primordium/Captive in the book "Primordium"

Quite a few SPOILERS...just BT dubs.

 

I made the Didact speech in yellow, and the Primordium speech in red. Just so it's easier to follow without reading the entire thing.

Also, more important things are bold and most important is bold, italicized, and underlined...BAM!! haha

Anyways...

 

 

"The Didact gave a small quiver, whether of rage or fear I could not tell. “You told me you were the last Precursor.” The Primordial rearranged its limbs with a leathery shuffle. Powder sifted from torso and legs. “How can you be the last of anything?” the Didact asked. “I see now that you are nothing more than a mash-up of old victims infected by the Flood. A Gravemind. Were all the Precursors Graveminds?” Another sifting shuffle. “Or are you after all only an imitation of a Precursor, a puppet— a reanimated corpse? Are all the Precursors gone— or is it that the Flood will make new Precursors?” “Those[precursors] who created you were defied and hunted,” the Captive said. “Most were extinguished. A few fled beyond your reach. Creation continued.” “Defied! You were monsters set upon destroying all who would assume the Mantle.” “It was long ago decided. Forerunners will never bear the Mantle.” “Decided how?” “Through long study. The decision is final. Humans will replace you. Humans will be tested next.” Was the Primordial giving me a message of hope? Doom for our enemies … ascendancy and triumph for humanity? “Is that to be our punishment?” the Didact asked, his tone subdued— dangerous. “It is the way of those who seek out the truth of the Mantle. Humans will rise again in arrogance and defiance. The Flood will return when they are ripe— and bring them unity.” “But most humans are immune,” the Didact said. Then he seemed to understand, and lowered his great head between his shoulders like a bull about to charge. “Can the Flood choose to infect, or not to infect?” The wide, flat head canted to one side, as if savoring some demonic irony. “No immunity. Judgment. Timing.” “Then why turn Mendicant Bias against its creators, and encourage the Master Builder to torture humans? Why allow this cruelty? Are you the fount of all misery?” the Didact cried out. The Captive’s strange, ticking voice continued. “Misery is sweetness,” it said, as if confiding a secret. “Forerunners will fail as you have failed before. Humans will rise. Whether they will also fail has not been decided.” “How can you control any of this? You’re stuck here— the last of your kind!” “The last of this kind.” The head leaned forward, crimping the torso and front limbs until one leg actually separated and fell away, shooting out a cloud of fine dust. The Captive was decaying from within. What sort of cage was this? The misty blue light seemed to vibrate and a high, singing sound reverberated through the hemisphere, shaping razor-sharp nodes of dissonance. But the Captive still managed to speak. “We are the Flood. There is no difference. Until all space and time are rolled up and life is crushed in the folds … no end to war, grief, or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries … unity again, and wisdom. Until then— sweetness.” The Didact stepped forward with a sharp grunt. He lifted his hand and a panel appeared in the air, shaping controls. The Captive’s head squared on its torso, as if bracing for what it knew was about to come. “It is your task to kill this servant,” it said, “that another may be freed.”"

 

“Those who created you were defied and hunted....Most were extinguished. A few fled beyond your reach. Creation continued.”

^^^Here it sounds like he is describing the Flood after the first Halo array firing right? Most were destroyed, but some survived and kept their distance while humans and the races making up the covenant continued to gain power ("Creation continued"). This fits perfectly, the flood were almost defeated and fled, waiting to return. However he said "those who created you", but he couldn't possibly mean the Flood created the Forerunners could he? Is he speaking in riddles? Because it was actually the Precursors who were defied and hunted by the Forerunners...but if the flood and precursors were the same in any way, this could be possible evidence...or just simple coincidence and manipulation of the text.

Anyways, let's move on.

 

“The last of this kind.”

Not a clue what this might mean. When he says "this kind" is he referring to the last of the Precursors, which would mean the Flood and the Precursors are not exactly the same, but related in the same consciousness? i.e. the primordial may die, and with it the original physical Precursors, but the Precursors will still live on in the Flood....maybe.

 

“We are the Flood. There is no difference."

Kinda self explanatory. Although I'm confused as to why nobody else has brought up this quote. Again, I wonder if he is speaking in riddles, if he means the flood come from the precursors, if he is actually flood and not a precursor at all, or, something else...haha

 

Until all space and time are rolled up and life is crushed in the folds … no end to war, grief, or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries … unity again, and wisdom. Until then— sweetness.”

Throughout this entire conversation he keeps talking about this "unity" between all species. This sounds like Flood logic, consume all sentient life. Up until that point, destruction and turmoil for everyone...which doesn't sound fun in the least. However, the Flood are not mindlessly taking all species that exist and infecting them. As seen in the dialogue, the Flood can choose who to infect, they wait until a species has reached it's pinnacle and is preparing to take "The Mantle", then the flood strikes and consumes all, gaining wisdom and unity through this "testing" of a species which I see as futile. But if they continuously leave other species to continue on in their evolution every time, it seems this may be a never ending cycle, until somehow a species(hopefully humans) can figure out a way to ultimately defeat every last parasite known as the Flood. This kind of reminds me of the Reapers in Mass Effect.

 

 

Ummm....I think I got almost everything, not sure. i'd rather here all yall's say though

[Victory Element]

thats enough evidence right above. Enough said

[Did4ct]

After Silentium the theory is still going strong I think.

[AnimeAddict]

Well after seeing the end to halo 4 I believe that 343 is going to continue with the Didact instead cause

i find it hard to believe a forunner was beaten that easily

[medcsu]

Halo 7-9 will probably delve into the Precursors. For now, I agree with AnimeAddict in that the Didact will be the primary antagonist for the remainder of the Reclaimer trilogy.

[Frankenzer]

Good theory

[AnimalDenWinter]

Very interesting theory! This could be in Halo: Anniversary section I think. If that is true, and it's something 343 are hiding at the moment! This could lead to maybe a new Halo games campaign story. That would be good. You've made me wan't to read the books: and I hate reading, except from probably Halo Books! I've read Halo: The Flood. It was good.

[AnimeAddict]

Halo 7-9 will probably delve into the Precursors. For now, I agree with AnimeAddict in that the Didact will be the primary antagonist for the remainder of the Reclaimer trilogy.

Well, thats also IF they decide to carry it that far.IF they do I just hope they keep it fresh and dont slowly drive it to the ground like what has happen with alot of other games