Kal825B

On top of that, Halo fans are too nostalgic to accept new things at all.

Did you have any skulls activated? Non scoring skulls like the scarab skull negate level completion achievements.

That's basically how i feel about Halo "competitive" multiplayer. Their "consistency" is really just them wanting it to stay the same with little to no changes. I was one of those few that was happy with the mix of different things Halo Reach and Halo 4 brought to Halo. I do see what you are saying though.

You do realize you described just about every Halo campaign mission. Don't you?

Oh, i'm sorry about that, i quoted you instead of just replying to the thread in general. I didn't even realize that until now. Yes, you are correct.

I was actually referring to Black team. Naomi was accounted for, which is why i said 1 Spartan. Black team wasn't accounted after Halo: Blood lines until Catalog told us they were stationed on Gamma halo in 2558. Thats what i was trying to say. Victor and Otto are blackteam members. See what i mean?

Again, Blueteam, Chief, and others did not "re-appear" until after Musa-096 decided to commence with the Spartan IV program. By active i meant accounted for and wearing MJOLNIR. I shouldn't have to be this specific. The Spartan IV program was made because of the lack of Spartan II's. A Spartan 2 washout was even the one that headed the program.

That would probably be gamma company. Catalog never confirmed that. They may still operate under the UNSC.

I meant when the Spartan IV's were created, only 1 Spartan 2 was active. Which is why they made the Spartan IV program. Other Spartan 2's didn't appear until later.

Buck's ODST squad is more than likely a part of the Spartan IV's

This was a pretty good summation except for the ODST part. the Spartan IV's were made to replace the 2's. Since only 1 active Spartan 2 was still around when they were created. Also, i'm pretty sure the surviving Spartan 3's of gamma company were never deployed. The surviving members of Gamma company were given orders to deploy, but i don't think they did. I wouldn't say they are weaker in terms of augmentations. Also if Gamma company were to survive, they would not have as much experience as someone who has fought for years, since they were going to deploy a couple months before the Human-Covenant war ended. Their training is also better than the Spartan 2's. We established this already. Again, Alpha and Beta companies augmentations don't prove anything. Spartan IV augmentations were more than likely derived from that. The mutagen Gamma company received would not normally be given to the 3's. Kurt was just upset that his 3's were cannon fodder. Except for the fact that Chief was not in his armor when he calculated that. It was not because of his armor's visor. What i'm saying is that the augmentations allows for him to recall just about anything he learned and process it much faster than any human could. Its all good. I have never ready anything about that. I'm doubtful of that. Unless, you know where you got that from? Actually, i'd say Majestic might be a little better off because of their Gen 2 armor. If it were Fireteam Crimson against Noble team, i'd say that 4 Noble Six's(so-to-speak) could demolish Noble team. Give Noble team Gen 2 armor, then yes, i'd say they could beat Majestic. Not as bad as you think though. I said pretty much just as intense. I was never trying to say it was directly on par intensity. I was just trying to bring it to your attention that's its up their with that kind of intensity. Its all good.

Again, training is almost just as intense, it also doesn't hurt the conscience when 18+ year old's are going through it rather than having 6 year old's do it. And again, effects will differ depending on the individual. Have we not already established that the 3's had better training than the ODST's and the 2's? The Spartan 2's trainer and a Spartan 2 himself made sure of that. Also, those ODST's were never augmented. Its talking about prior to the Spartan IV program. Sure, i'll change it if it bothers you. That doesn't prove anything. Also, most of the Spartan IV augmentations are more than likely derived from the Spartan 3 program. Which isn't illogical since its 3 decades later. I said most IV's were composed of ODST's. No, only the members of Noble team were given MJOLNIR armor. I never said it was more intense. I said it was pretty much just as intense. Nothing for me to prove wrong, since i never said it was more intense. I was just saying that it was nearly on par with Spartan II training. Actually, yes, there augmentations made them more intelligent. You don't have to be genetically perfect to be a smart individual. On a side note, you think Chief calculated the gravity he was standing in with a normal brain? Before his augmentations, Chief wasn't that good at math. Again, i wouldn't consider it off-topic, since a lot of Spartan IV's were previously ODST's. Thats how certain Spartan IV's are trained.

Roman numerals don't have to be used. I think you should read over everything just in case there is something you might have missed. Actually, since the IV's survived the Human covenant War, they have more experience. A good 3/4ths of the 3's died in the human covenant war. There training was much more effective than the 2's, which in turn makes it more effective than the ODST's. However, it was for a much shorter time. The Spartan IV program happened 32 years after the Spartan 3 program. Its very safe to assume that the IV's augmentations have advancements the the 3's augmentations didn't have. Maybe if the 3's were given time to grow up they would be a match for a 4 or 2, but not in their 12 year old bodies. They would also have to be given MJOLNIR. Again, the training was pretty much just as intense. Spartan 2's are more intelligent because they received that augmentation. The effects it has on you is a different story. How is it off-topic if most Spartan IV's were originally ODST's?

Yes, Really. I'm not ignoring it, i'm just saying that ODST training is pretty much just as intense. The effect it has on someone is a different story.

You have to keep in mind, ODST training is just about as brutal as Spartan 2 training. And i'm not making that up either. I agree about the Marines though. I see what your saying. They still think like how they were before augmentations. Maybe so. In my opinion they are ahead of the Spartan 3's and behind the Spartan 2's, because of their thought process in comparison.

As Frank O'Connor said. Think about all of the physical feats that have been done by a Spartan 2 in Gen 1 armor and then place them on a Spartan IV in Gen 2 armor. They are closer to the Spartan 2's then you and many other people think. On top of that they are mass produced. Why would you not go for the IV's?

That was the point to the Gen 2 armor. It was the equalizing factor. I agree. When you have 'nigh' Spartan 2 quality Soldiers that can be mass produced in large numbers, i think i'd go for that. No offense to the Spartan 2's, there's just to little of them. Its all good.

Thanks. Its all good. From what Franky said in the interview, Gen 2 is "stronger" than Gen 1 armor, so i think its safe to assume that it can either take the same amount of punishment, or much more. I'm leaning toward the latter.

Thanks. My original intention for this post was to show people how powerful a Spartan 4 is, but then i figured why not quantify the rest. I found an interview with Frank that showed 4's are roughly as physically powerful as a 2 when they are in armor. Thats why its an equal to/greater than sign. The edge the 2's have over the 4's is mental rather than physical when in armor.

Prototype Rendered Obsolete by New version. Link to New Thread. Never seems to be a thread about this or they really aren't that accurate to begin with. So i decided to make one. In this thread i will be discussing what I've gathered about the 4 main Spartan projects, not including sub-projects. It is my facts/opinion that i have formulated over the course of my being a Halo fan. The scale will rank the soldier from most dominant to least dominant. Keep in mind that some Stats in this thread are based on assumptions since many things are never directly stated. Probably because it gives the writer freedom to let the character achieve a physical feat without making it inconsistent with another Writer's ideas. My best guess. Spartan I Program(Project Orion) This was the first attempt by the UNSC to produce Super Soldiers. It augmented soldiers physically and mentally, but some scientists were concerned about the long term effects of the program even with its success and had it shut down. (Johnson will be the example of the program since he is a well know main character who is a Spartan 1.) Some physical stats of a Spartan 1: Reflexes quick enough to avoid a shotgun blast. Strong enough to jump what looks to be 25(7.62m) to 30(9.144m) feet with armor on that weighs him down. If your not sure what the means with Long jump, the current world record for Long jump is around 29 feet. That being said, Johnson was also weighed down by his armor which would also hinder the distance he could achieve. With those pictures being shown, i think it would be reasonable to come to the conclusion that most if not all Spartan 1's were of Olympian Gold medal quality, maybe even better in terms of physical composition. Spartan II Project The Spartan 2's were made from genetically perfect children who were trained for 8 years before receiving augmentations that made them into Super humans. Then to further increase their combat effectiveness, they were given GEN 1 MJOLNIR armor which doubles strength and speed, but also enhances reflexes by a factor of 5. It was said that the 2's would only get better as their bodies adapted to the augmentations. Stats of Spartan 2's: Chief was considered an average Spartan, but lived long enough for his augmentations to adapt to his body more. So, Chief will be the example since we have things to go by. Some Chief feats 27+ years after augmentations: In Halo: The Flood, Chief flipped a 7000lbs(3175.15kg) Warthog by the Bumper. This particular maneuver mostly utilized the biceps and Deltoids while also firing his pectoral muscles. The book never mentioned any sign of strain while Chief did this. Which leads me to believe he can handle more weight. In Halo The Fall of Reach, Chief ran at 62.5mph(100.5kph). In the Same book, Chief was able to deflect a missile with the swipe of a fore arm. In Halo: the Fall of Reach, Chief displayed incredible signs of intelligence while trying to calculate whether or not he was standing in 1g. As shown below. With those Spartan 2 feats out of the way, i can gladly say that the Spartan 2 is the true definition of Super human and is well beyond the success of the Spartan 1 program in terms of effectiveness and quality of the soldier produced. Spartan III Program The Spartan 3 program was developed to create super soldiers out of orphans who would be effective due to numbers rather than individual prowess. While the Spartan 3 program was effective, it doesn't have many "Solid" things to go by. Some Assumptions/stated facts: Due to the Wider gene pool of the Candidates, the results of the augmentations more than likely became inconsistent, but from what we've seen. In Halo: Ghosts of Onyx, Kurt stated the the Program would give them the strength of 3 ordinary soldiers and they can run at 18 mph(28.9kph). There reflexes were boosted 300%. The novel also stated that the 3's had speed and reflexes no Covenant could follow. They also managed pretty well in CQC with Elites. The 3's use SPI armor which does not increase the wearers strength or speed, but can camouflage them consistently for a great period of time unless damage is taken. The Spartan 3's may not have many feats to go by and may have been mass produced for successful one way trip missions, but they were still effective soldiers in large numbers, none the less. Spartan IV Program The Spartan 4 Program was meant to be the Culmination of the Spartan 2 and Spartan 3 program, by harnessing the Combat effectiveness of the Spartan 2's, while also harnessing the Success rate of the Spartan 3 program to create the 4th iteration of the Spartan program. No gene restrictions, if you have the service record, your in. The Spartan 4 program augmentations are never explained in detail, but we can make some educated guesses from what was given. In Halo: Initiation, Palmer states that she is able to outrun a horse. The average horse can run at 40(64.3kph) to 44mph(70.8kph). In Halo Initiation, Palmer states that her muscles are coated with a substance that lets them work harder. Studies have shown that the human body only uses a small percentage(roughly 20% to 30%) of its capable strength, which is also backed by super human feats in dire situations. Which would lead me to believe that the 4's can use all of their strength at will rather then in a dangerous situation. For example, lets say that an ODST can bench somewhere around 375lbs(170kg) or can curl 70lbs(31kg). After augmentations, the ODST can bench somewhere around 1125lbs(510kg), and can curl somewhere around 210lbs(95kg). Through the utilization of the Human body's capable strength. This is also backed by their bones being made much(15x) stronger(like the 2's), allowing the muscles to tense up tighter with out breaking the skeleton. Which, logically, is why the Human body doesn't always use all of its strength, unless needed. They were also given other augmentations like faster healing time and so forth. The spartan 4's already excellent abilities were magnified by GEN 2 MJOLNIR armor. Note: I knew this existed, but i couldn't find it until now. According to Frank O'Connor. An average Spartan IV in GEN 2 MJOLNIR armor, can "definitely" take on a Spartan II in GEN 1 MJOLNIR armor. However, out of armor a Spartan II would win. 1:15 - 2:10 members.shaw.ca/laird2/temp/derp/interview.mp3 Like the 2's, it was stated by jun that the 4's will only improve as they adjust to their augmentations. Thats about what we have for the 4's stats. My list from greatest to least. In terms of Dominance. 2=>4>3>1 That was my list of superiority of Spartans. Tell me what you think below. Do you have a differing opinion? If so please tell me what you think. If anyone wants an exact source rather than just the media title, just ask. Also, feel free to add a Spartan feat to the thread if you know of any.