Steam introduces paid mods, starting with Skyrim

[Composite Armour]

Link pls: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent

 

Alright, for those of you with a fear of links and/or an absolutely drastic case of laziness, I'll sum it up for you in a completely objective and totally unbiased(lolno) way: Steam is allowing mods to be sold for a price.

 

Now honestly, this sounds like a horrible move and I hope it fails completely and burns in the depths. I like mods. Mods are fun. I like the people who make mods so people can have fun. Those people make them for fun/desire or whatever reason they have. Now when I see this, I'm actually wondering about what the future of modding will be.

 

Already there's a split in the modding community, with some modders taking their mods down off of nexus and uploading them for a price onto steam, while other modders have forbidden their mods from being used in any paid content whatsoever.

 

Now what will happen with sites like Nexus? If Steam/Bethesda are making money from workshop mods and not making money from nexus mods, they'll obviously try to correct that. If they somehow managed to get nexus out of the picture, I think we'll enter some bizarre world where people are going to PIRATE MODS. And I don't mean mods about pirates. This is ridiculous. Absurd! OUTRAGEOUS! Well probably not, but it's pretty stupid.

 

Bethesda games are known for their mod friendliness on PC. Will this change? Why pay for content when you could make it yourself? I'm really worried here, because companies like EA have shown that businesses can and will make stupid decisions that no one asked nor wanted them to do and shoot themselves in the foot. If Bethesda games lose their modding potential, their PC market will probably collapse. I wouldn't play ES on PC if I couldn't get mods.

 

Lastly, people are friends. Friends work together as team. Team makes amazing mods. Everyone loves those mods. Friends are happy that their mods are adored. All well and good. Now toss money into that mix...human nature will set in and there will be sad times. Money corrupts and makes good people into absolute p- I'll leave it at that.

 

If you want facts and information follow the link and do some investigating. Want things handed on a plate or something?

This is pretty much my opinion and I want to hear your opinions. What do you think? Is it good that modders should recieve pay for their work? How will modding be affected? Do you even care? Do you even lift bro? Will this ever affect that dream of modding on the "Xbox 360#420 one the sequel"?

Edited April 24, 2015 by Ledgend1221

[BATMAN]

Dear God no. Please no!

 

No no no no no no no no no no no no-- NI! Just.. Just... Entirely unacceptable.

 

Why do they think this is a good idea?

Put it back. Right now.

[Unease Peanut]

I saw this pop up this morning when I woke up and all I could think was...

 

 

I'm not that much of a mod downloader as I rarely play PC games but this just sounds like a "How to kill a modding community 101" guide.

I could understand from the modders point of view that he'd like a little buck for his effort, but that can easily be done through donations DIRECTLY to the modder instead of having to pay a hefty 75% of the set price to Bethesda and Steam through the store. That 75% doesn't make it feel like supporting the modder, but makes it feel more like DLC that both Bethesda and Steam did nothing for.

 

[RedStarRocket91]

To be honest, I actually think this is a fairly minor symptom of a much bigger issue. In fact, taken on its own merits, I actually quite like the idea, and it's the wider implications of this, rather than the principle behind it, that I take issue with.

 

While we're certainly going to be seeing a lot of mods going premium-only in the near future, I honestly expect that a majority of mods are going to remain free. Now, back in the days of Reach, I was something of a forger. I was never particularly good, but that didn't stop me from building maps anyway, and even though there were tens - perhaps hundreds - of thousands of fantastic maps and gametypes being produced by the community, I still enjoyed Forging simply because I wanted other people to play them. There's something very affirming about the idea that other people are enjoying something you've created, and while it no doubt sounds vain, I loved the idea that sometime, somewhere, someone would start up a game with the words 'hey, this map is by RSR, he's a great forger', or whatever. The fact that you've never heard of anything I've made, or that I was ever even a Forger at all, tells you everything about how well that worked out, but oh well. Anyway, the point is: while it would have been nice if the people who'd downloaded and played my maps had offered me some sort of payment for them, be it a few cents or a few dollars, what was far more important to me was that people would play my maps at all, that I'd get all the recognition and satisfaction that comes with other people appreciating my work. This is basically a very long way of saying, while a lot of modders no doubt will jump at the chance to get paid for their work, I genuinely expect most of them will keep theirs free simply because it increases the chances of other people actually downloading and playing with them, and that's more important than money for a lot of creators.

 

And even if that's not the case - I still don't really see the issue. If someone wants to invest their time, effort, and creative energies into producing something for the purpose of making money, how is that different from any other creative endeavour like writing a book, recording music - or even making a videogame? We're happy to pay for all of these things, so why not for a mod? As ever, it's a case of supply and demand, and the consumer is of course free to not purchase mods if they object to the pricing - and unlike things like day-one DLC or paywall-locked content, you're not actually losing anything from the game itself if you choose not to, but instead you're just not getting bonus stuff. Think of it like going to the cinema: while it might have made the experience better, you're not actually going to miss any of the film itself if you don't buy popcorn because it costs extra rather than coming free with the ticket.

 

More importantly - who are we to dictate what someone is and isn't allowed to do with their own content? if someone feels that they've created something worth paying for and tries to sell it, then either the consumers will agree, in which case they buy it, or they don't, in which case they don't. There is absolutely nothing wrong with creating art for the sake of making money - provided that the consumer feels that the product was worth how much they paid for it (be it $60 or nothing at all), should we really care about why it was made?

 

No, the real issue here is the shocking percentage of what actually goes to the modder. 25% is an appallingly low number, and frankly, I don't understand why it's so little. I'm not sure where the other 75% is going to go - between Bethesda and Valve, maybe? - but this alone is enough to put me off purchasing mods via Steam. I don't have any objection to paying for my mods - in fact, I'm even happy to pay a little extra to Valve for use of their servers and bandwidth - but I'm not willing for so little to actually go to the persons responsible for creating my content. At the very least, the figure should be 35%, which is in my mind acceptable as it allows for Valve's traditional 30% fee, and the remainder then being halved between Bethesda and the modder: this is still lower than I'd like, but it would at least seem reasonable. The real worry here is that Valve is getting greedy - and given that they're essentially the premier PC game distribution platform these days anyway, there's a real concern that in cornering the market on mods as well, they're going to establish a monopoly, which is never a good thing for the consumer.

[Fishy]

[Ash]

I honestly don't see the issue with this. Like RSR said, not everyone is going to go make their mods paid.

 

And you can, in no way, blame any modder for wanting to get the chance to make money off of something they've put a lot of time and effort into.

 

While I don't know any modders for say Skyrim, I know that there are some really popular mods, and mods that look visually amazing, and those people that make them certainly deserve to get paid for their work that surpasses the original games standards. Also, if someone knows they're going to get paid to make something, that typically will make the final product better quality than if someone were to just make it for free. It doesn't apply to everyone, but it will apply to a fair amount of modders.

 

If anything, it's a "wait and see" type of thing, and honestly, it's surprising that they haven't tried to do this sooner.

[Buns]

For now I am going to be ok with this.

 

This has the potential to do some amazing things. Like support modders who are attempting total conversions and help them follow through and actually finish their mod(since a lot of mods always fail due to lack of time or money)

 

Modding is hard work and while donations have always been a good thing this time around they can get paid for the effort they put into this.

 

The problem comes with the pricing models. There needs to be a way to regulate this because I saw an armor set go for $2. Yes it was a very high quality armor set, but it is only ONE armor set for the cost of $2. Which is just silly.

 

Yes you can argue "oh it isnt even that expensive" But what happens when you start to add things up? $2 for one set of armor? A lot of people can only afford one $60 game a year(I was once in this position. It sucks) I never got the chance before to buy DLC or map packs or weapon skins because back then even those "$2" was a tough sell. 

 

I know I may sound dumb for arguing over something worth $2 but the implications of these pricing problems could run deeper then intended. Although so far I've noticed a lot of the mods are "Pay what you want" which is something I think should be in place for ALL mods. 

 

And as Ledgend said. These paid mods also bring the problem of friends working together to create content. When money is thrown into the mix things get hasty. Like does the programmer deserve more of the shares then the modeler? Unless Steam has a way to equally split revenue among all involved I could see a lot of problems arising from this and potentially a lot of mod drama.

 

 

But yes. Pirating mods will soon be a thing. Themoddersbay we shall name it. 

[Composite Armour]

Of course I think that people should be rewarded for their work, but this is just ridiculous. The Mod author only gets 25% of the price and they don't get paid until they make 100 quid. I'd honestly rather donate directly to them instead of letting valve and Bethesda get such an insane cut of the price. I honestly don't feel like I'm supporting them at all, I feel like I'm being ripped off. If you put in a way to donate money to content creators directly and make it completely optional, people can and will do it. This feels like another Youtube/Twitch.

 

And let's be real here, Kickstarter and Steam Greenlight have shown that people can and will put up crap, promise things they can never implement and just abandon mods after they make some quick cash. With the insanely short 24 hour refund period(like seriously) that doesn't take into account some of the MANY things which can go wrong and cause the mod to break completely and utterly, this is going to be a big problem and I just don't see Valve suddenly upping the quality control like that.

 

I just feel so frustrated, it seems like such a short-sighted decision to make a quick buck. People can and will buy the game well after launch to mod it. If they can't mod it(A lot of it is trial and error, seeing what mods work and what doesn't, which of course is just not taken into account at all by steam), they won't buy the game.

[Twinreaper]

Here is the aspect your all missing.....IT'S ILLEGAL!!! Neither Steam nor any other 3rd party owns the IP and licensing rights to games. By charging money for a mod as a modder, you are making money, and or the seller (Steam) is making money....and I have yet to see the business model explained.

 

Is Steam giving 100% of the selling price to the publisher/Developer? Do they have a contract with every studio in their library? EUA guidlines for content usage and even engine sdk's require the person creating content on an already owned IP to pay a royalty or subscription service fee. Do I think my fellow modders should be compensated for the content they push out? Absolutely not! The entire premise of mods is to extend a games life and playability for FUN.

 

Do I think I should be paid as well as my team for everything we have corrected for Microsoft in Halo 2 PC? No, I dont. Why? Because we did it is fun. We did it to not slap Microsoft in the face and wave our flag, but to help the community. What kind of help would that have been if we charged and made it so that only people who could afford it could use it?

 

Aside from the moral and legal issues....what about the prospect of poorly explained or misadvertised content? I highly dou t a full team of 200+ people will be installing and testing these mods before it is able to be put up for sale. It would be very easy to fake a trailer for your content, xharge a premium price and have a mod that does nothing as described. Hell, we see that all the time from AAA studios for brand new IP's.

[Composite Armour]

Bethesda is working with Valve on this and Valve has said that they will only introduce paid mods with permission from the Developers/Publishers.

For Skyrim anyways, it's a 25% cut for the modder, 30% cut for Valve and 45% cut for Beth.

[Buns]

Here is the aspect your all missing.....IT'S ILLEGAL!!! 

It isnt illegal. Bethesda is in on this. Theyre the ones who teamed up with Valve to make this happen. Its perfectly legal.  The profits from the mod are split among all 3 parties. I think the Developer/Publisher get the biggest cut. 

[Melody]

Mods are fun and all, but why pay for them? Steam needs to reconsider this. I honestly do not think this will go very far.

 

Anyway interesting news Ledgend.

[TopHatMcJones]

I am just dumbstruck by this decision. This reminds me of EA a inkling as they are making you pay for things that should be free.

[Twinreaper]

As far as the legality, it's only legal for Valve/Bethesda titles.  Unless a deal is struck ahead of time for other publishers, aka Activision, Sony, Microsoft, etc... hosting any paid mod without an agreement ahead of time means lawsuits all around.

 

I don't think any modder should be given compensation or even be able to be given the option.  Truly great mods are created out of fun of doing so.  Creating a paid model will surely reduce the quality, as it will encourage laziness to be rewarded.  And let's be honest, most companies DON'T want you to mod their game.  There is a good reason why titles like Call of Duty and Battlefield have not backed an Editing Kit or the community for what they have been able to do.  A lot of companies are afraid of the implications of allowing the community to push out content that may be better than theirs.

 

I'd like to see a full list of games so far that support the "pay to mod" business model.  Guaranteed, half those games on the list are not anything spectacular or very popular right now.  Skyrim is a good example.  The game was over repetative and bland from the start.  ANYTHING added to it increased it's playablility.  Sad but true.  I uninstalled the game a week after getting it.

 

But that's just my take on it given my 15+ years of modding games...

[Composite Armour]

Update on this, Valve has removed the paid mods: http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-has-removed-paid-mods-functionality-from-steam-workshop/

 

 

[Caboose The Ace]

^
 
"We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing,"  WOLOLOLOLOL

 

Backtracking or what........

[Twinreaper]

At this point, I think Red Team could do a better job of running Valve...lmao