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Chief Being Classified As A 'Traitor'

Chief Traitor UNSC Halo 5 Guardians Campaign

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#21 Guts

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 06:42 PM

And yet you stated; This is all made up and doesn't exist At least bother to check first, I didn't make a thread of lies.


Not picking a side here, but Bacon does know his lore very well and is most likely more 'INTO the story' than the majority of members here. Having Chief tell Cortana he loves her is just...wrong. This is Halo, not Twilight. He's a soldier, almost emotionless. He wouldn't break down and tell an AI that he loves 'her'.



My main question is: Why would Chief go AWOL? Cortana is not a good enough reason, he's been through much more with others, and seen them die. E.g. Grace-093. Read up more about Grace. She's another Spartan-II. Chief literally saw her die, brutally. He activated the Fail-Safe Detonation on her Mark V armour and continued with the mission. I don't want 343I going all Disney style on us here with the story.


I was referring to the Halo Universe not existing

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#22 BaconShelf

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 08:15 PM

And yet you stated; This is all made up and doesn't exist At least bother to check first, I didn't make a thread of lies.


Not picking a side here, but Bacon does know his lore very well and is most likely more 'INTO the story' than the majority of members here. Having Chief tell Cortana he loves her is just...wrong. This is Halo, not Twilight. He's a soldier, almost emotionless. He wouldn't break down and tell an AI that he loves 'her'.



My main question is: Why would Chief go AWOL? Cortana is not a good enough reason, he's been through much more with others, and seen them die. E.g. Grace-093. Read up more about Grace. She's another Spartan-II. Chief literally saw her die, brutally. He activated the Fail-Safe Detonation on her Mark V armour and continued with the mission. I don't want 343I going all Disney style on us here with the story.



c:


We still have to follow up on Mendicant Bias; he directly communicates with us in Halo 3 via the terminals and deliberately chooses what to tell about the Forerunners. It's basically confirmed that Mendy, after reuniting with his fragment on the Keyship, closed the portal on the Dawn with the express purpose of sending John to Requiem.

Spoiler


So what reasons does John have to go AWOL?

He needs to find Mendicant; the Geas implanted in him by the Librarian will also have as of yet unseen effects on John and he will likely be trying to find the absolute record be it on his own or by siding with Halsey
He is starting to find his humanity; after Halo 4, John experienced the first defeat he has ever had (Spartans always won ground engagements) and that will affect him. At this point in time, everyone he gives a damn about, aside from his squad, is for all he knows dead. John is beginning to stop being a meat robot who blindly follows orders and is instead beginning to question what he sees and honestly it isn't good.

The navy spends all their budget on one ship which can barely take down an assault carrier and has been faced with destruction no less than a good 5 times in one year and capture by three people before it was even commissioned, a ship that bankrupted the UNSC and took two decades to build. ONI is trying to undo all the work being done by Hood and Thel by instigating civil war among their only allies to weaken them. John swore loyalty to humanity, he knows about the flood's true capabilities and what is at stake regarding that and the forerunners, the UNSC is working against the better interests of humanity as a whole now and has been for years, intentional or not. The insurrection popped up from the diet almost immediately after the war and once again the UNSC is facing major interplanetary war trying to keep control over its territory from the URF and NCA instead of trying to unite the species into a new covenant and preparing to fight the flood.

He thinks Halsey is dead, he thinks most Spartans are dead, he has no reason to stay with the UNSC now.

Edited by BaconShelf, 10 April 2015 - 08:16 PM.

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#23 UNSC Spartan-II

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 10:10 AM

c:


We still have to follow up on Mendicant Bias; he directly communicates with us in Halo 3 via the terminals and deliberately chooses what to tell about the Forerunners. It's basically confirmed that Mendy, after reuniting with his fragment on the Keyship, closed the portal on the Dawn with the express purpose of sending John to Requiem.

Spoiler


So what reasons does John have to go AWOL?

He needs to find Mendicant; the Geas implanted in him by the Librarian will also have as of yet unseen effects on John and he will likely be trying to find the absolute record be it on his own or by siding with Halsey
He is starting to find his humanity; after Halo 4, John experienced the first defeat he has ever had (Spartans always won ground engagements) and that will affect him. At this point in time, everyone he gives a damn about, aside from his squad, is for all he knows dead. John is beginning to stop being a meat robot who blindly follows orders and is instead beginning to question what he sees and honestly it isn't good.

The navy spends all their budget on one ship which can barely take down an assault carrier and has been faced with destruction no less than a good 5 times in one year and capture by three people before it was even commissioned, a ship that bankrupted the UNSC and took two decades to build. ONI is trying to undo all the work being done by Hood and Thel by instigating civil war among their only allies to weaken them. John swore loyalty to humanity, he knows about the flood's true capabilities and what is at stake regarding that and the forerunners, the UNSC is working against the better interests of humanity as a whole now and has been for years, intentional or not. The insurrection popped up from the diet almost immediately after the war and once again the UNSC is facing major interplanetary war trying to keep control over its territory from the URF and NCA instead of trying to unite the species into a new covenant and preparing to fight the flood.

He thinks Halsey is dead, he thinks most Spartans are dead, he has no reason to stay with the UNSC now.

 

2013's E3 trailer has clearly been less focused on recently, and Mendicant Bias must play a vital role in this somehow. I haven't read any of the forerunner trilogy books, I'm not as knowledgeable about the forerunners so I don't have much to say. The upcoming games will revolve around them a lot though.

 

Why is it that Chief needs to find Mendicant Bias so badly? A lot of his close allies have been dead for a while, yet he continued as normal. Some of his closest allies (Fred, Linda, Kelly, CPO Mendez) are still alive. He would fight by them, he wouldn't go against them and the rest of the UNSC.

 

What trouble is ONI trying to instigate, and why? How has the UNSC not been serving humanity's best interest? I find that real hard to believe. All this sounds like modern day government corruption, and I like this as it's a realistic factor. The soldiers fight and die, whilst the high up spooks sit and benefit themselves.


Edited by UNSC Spartan II, 11 April 2015 - 10:11 AM.

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#24 BATMAN

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 10:38 AM

Blanket reply before I wash my eyes with holy water and bleach (thanks for saying "twi--" *gags*);

Canon already seems to have shifted; I doubt the books and game have anything in common any more.
I don't care for reading.
With all the wtf-ery involved with the games/books (meaning their differences), how can we be any sort of certain that what's talked about in the books (or whatever you guys are going off about) will even be hinted to in the game?

But glad to see opinions differ so vastly.

Now where'd I leave my holy water?

#25 BaconShelf

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 12:31 PM

2013's E3 trailer has clearly been less focused on recently, and Mendicant Bias must play a vital role in this somehow. I haven't read any of the forerunner trilogy books, I'm not as knowledgeable about the forerunners so I don't have much to say. The upcoming games will revolve around them a lot though.

Why is it that Chief needs to find Mendicant Bias so badly? A lot of his close allies have been dead for a while, yet he continued as normal. Some of his closest allies (Fred, Linda, Kelly, CPO Mendez) are still alive. He would fight by them, he wouldn't go against them and the rest of the UNSC.

What trouble is ONI trying to instigate, and why? How has the UNSC not been serving humanity's best interest? I find that real hard to believe. All this sounds like modern day government corruption, and I like this as it's a realistic factor. The soldiers fight and die, whilst the high up spooks sit and benefit themselves.



Because Mendicant was the leader of a massive army of Flood in the late Forerunner-Flood war- he was in control of millions of vessels and in co-ordination with the keyminds an Graveminds. Mendicant knows the full knowledge of the Flood and will be a vital part for when they return in force.

Blanket reply before I wash my eyes with holy water and bleach (thanks for saying "twi--" *gags*);

Canon already seems to have shifted; I doubt the books and game have anything in common any more.
I don't care for reading.
With all the wtf-ery involved with the games/books (meaning their differences), how can we be any sort of certain that what's talked about in the books (or whatever you guys are going off about) will even be hinted to in the game?

But glad to see opinions differ so vastly.

Now where'd I leave my holy water?



Well 343 uses all relevant media in their games. Halo 4 used the entirety of the Forerunner saga and Kilo 5 wa the explanation of how Jul's covenant started up. Escalation is all about setting up the plotlines to be followed in Halo 5 like Brute/ Elite relations, the UNSC and ONI slowly growing distant, Spirit of Fire and so forth.

Just because you're too lazy to read, that doesn't mean they should cater the story down and ignore the expanded universe.

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#26 BATMAN

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 12:46 PM

Just because you're too lazy to read, that doesn't mean they should cater the story down and ignore the expanded universe.



Easy there. I forgot sarcasm doesn't translate well through text. It isn't laziness that prevents me from doing the research, it's that I no longer have the free time to do said research; nor the patience to bullet point the information.

And I wasn't implying the latter half of your statement either; I don't really know where you got that from. I wasn't saying that they should do fanservice, I was saying that they opened it up to it.

#27 BaconShelf

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 01:10 PM

Easy there. I forgot sarcasm doesn't translate well through text. It isn't laziness that prevents me from doing the research, it's that I no longer have the free time to do said research; nor the patience to bullet point the information.

And I wasn't implying the latter half of your statement either; I don't really know where you got that from. I wasn't saying that they should do fanservice, I was saying that they opened it up to it.



Eh. I see too many people who want 343 to make all EU non-canon or give it out for free or waste time in-game explaining it again because they're too lazy to go even look on halopedia.

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#28 UNSC Spartan-II

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 01:42 PM

Blanket reply before I wash my eyes with holy water and bleach (thanks for saying "twi--" *gags*);

Canon already seems to have shifted; I doubt the books and game have anything in common any more.
I don't care for reading.
With all the wtf-ery involved with the games/books (meaning their differences), how can we be any sort of certain that what's talked about in the books (or whatever you guys are going off about) will even be hinted to in the game?

But glad to see opinions differ so vastly.

Now where'd I leave my holy water?

 

Bungie and 343 Industries have actually done a great job of keeping the books and games in line with eachother. I understand the fact that you don't have much time to read, but your statement of 'wtf-ery' in terms of differences between the games and books is false. They're very accurate.

 

Because Mendicant was the leader of a massive army of Flood in the late Forerunner-Flood war- he was in control of millions of vessels and in co-ordination with the keyminds an Graveminds. Mendicant knows the full knowledge of the Flood and will be a vital part for when they return in force.

 

True, we may end up seeing the end of the Flood soon if we can get MB's co-ordination. Now what was all that business about the UNSC and ONI above?


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#29 BaconShelf

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 01:51 PM

Bungie and 343 Industries have actually done a great job of keeping the books and games in line with eachother. I understand the fact that you don't have much time to read, but your statement of 'wtf-ery' in terms of differences between the games and books is false. They're very accurate.


True, we may end up seeing the end of the Flood soon if we can get MB's co-ordination. Now what was all that business about the UNSC and ONI above?



-ONI causing/ attempting/ supplying civil war between their only ally
-ONI engineering bioweapons to wipe out their only ally
-ONI driving away the only woman who knows how to operate Forerunner technology on a competant level
-ONI lying to the Navy about Jackal pirates to try and get rid of a minor threat (Note this has caused Lasky to vow never to trust ONI again, if it and to Civil War, Infinity would not be on te side of ONI)

Also, we will be seeing the flood.

"The forerunners have been tested and have ailed, humanity will be tested next, when they rise up in arrogance and defiance"

^ a paraphrased quite from the Primordial basically saying when humans become powerful again, they will be tested in the same way the forerunners were. Humanity is becoming arrogant and defiant now, and te Flood will soon return in force.

Edited by BaconShelf, 11 April 2015 - 01:54 PM.

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#30 Jack Of Harts

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 02:01 PM

The Chief's main mission was to protect Cortana. Johnson: "Don't let her go... Don't ever... let her go..."


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#31 Caboose The Ace

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 02:17 PM

^

 

No, his mission was the protect Humanity and for almost all his life he has been doing that pretty well. :)


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#32 BaconShelf

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 02:37 PM

The Chief's main mission was to protect Cortana. Johnson: "Don't let her go... Don't ever... let her go..."



That doesn't make it his mission.

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#33 Jack Of Harts

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 02:41 PM

That doesn't make it his mission.

 

That may not have been a good example but it doesn't change the fact that his mission has always been to protect Cortana. Why do you think that in most of Halo 3 your objective was to re-obtain Cortana?


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#34 Caboose The Ace

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 02:43 PM

^

 

No your wrong, his mission has always been ever since he became a Spartan ( and was the Spartans primary purpose to begin with ) to protect Humanity. :) 


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#35 BaconShelf

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 06:51 AM

That may not have been a good example but it doesn't change the fact that his mission has always been to protect Cortana. Why do you think that in most of Halo 3 your objective was to re-obtain Cortana?



Tht was never a direct mission; that was something he chose to undertake himself. His direct mission from the moment he was given Cortana; a day before the Battle of Reach; was to infiltrate a Covenant Cruiser and capture a Prophet alive. Then it was what e was ordered to do; te only point has it been a priority of his was the mission Cortana and the first three levels of Halo 4. After that, Cortana is, at best, a secondary objective- coupled with his own life.

Using a line from a person who was not only in another branch of the military (John is in the Navy, Johnson in the Marines) but also a lower rank (Master Chief Petty Officer vs. Staff Sergeant) is not a good example. Cortana is not John's primary concern.

In Halo 3, most of your objective was to kill Truth and end the Covenant. The Cortana moments aren't actually Cortana, you know.

Edited by BaconShelf, 12 April 2015 - 06:53 AM.

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#36 UNSC Spartan-II

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 02:03 PM

-ONI causing/ attempting/ supplying civil war between their only ally
-ONI engineering bioweapons to wipe out their only ally
-ONI driving away the only woman who knows how to operate Forerunner technology on a competant level
-ONI lying to the Navy about Jackal pirates to try and get rid of a minor threat (Note this has caused Lasky to vow never to trust ONI again, if it and to Civil War, Infinity would not be on te side of ONI)

 

Who is this 'only ally'? The UNSC?

I've got no idea about the lies relating to Jackle pirates. Is some of this in Escalation?

Doesn't the UNSC have to side with ONI? Doesn't ONI almost command the UNSC? They are both tied together.


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#37 Caboose The Ace

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 03:11 PM

^
 
This "only ally" are the swords of Sanghelios. :)


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#38 BaconShelf

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 04:25 PM

Who is this 'only ally'? The UNSC?
I've got no idea about the lies relating to Jackle pirates. Is some of this in Escalation?
Doesn't the UNSC have to side with ONI? Doesn't ONI almost command the UNSC? They are both tied together.



Te Swords of Sanghelios- arguably the most powerful faction in existence led by Thel 'Vadam. Without Thel as an ally, humanity woul have been wiped off the map by pretty much any faction out there by now. ONI tried to instigate civil war and engineer bioweapons to force them into famine- not exactly a great idea.

Kig-Yar have always been pirates an were largely employed by the Covenant as scavengers. As soon as the Covenant ended, they quickly resumed being pirates and mercenaries. Yes, that event in particular was from Escalation, though. 11 and 12- my useful links thread has a link to read all of escalation online.

Not really. If the UNSC decided to abandon ONI, they could do it; ONI has done more to hinder the UNSC and controls many politicians and such through backdoor politics. Plus, the UNSC has handed control back to the UEG and is no longer the war government.

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#39 UNSC Spartan-II

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 11:59 AM

Te Swords of Sanghelios- arguably the most powerful faction in existence led by Thel 'Vadam. Without Thel as an ally, humanity woul have been wiped off the map by pretty much any faction out there by now. ONI tried to instigate civil war and engineer bioweapons to force them into famine- not exactly a great idea.

Kig-Yar have always been pirates an were largely employed by the Covenant as scavengers. As soon as the Covenant ended, they quickly resumed being pirates and mercenaries. Yes, that event in particular was from Escalation, though. 11 and 12- my useful links thread has a link to read all of escalation online.

Not really. If the UNSC decided to abandon ONI, they could do it; ONI has done more to hinder the UNSC and controls many politicians and such through backdoor politics. Plus, the UNSC has handed control back to the UEG and is no longer the war government.

 

Why would ONI want to instigate a civil war?

 

I'm aware of the Kig-Yar's history, thank you, although I didn't see what ONI were lying about and why. I'll check Escalation for that someday, thanks.


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#40 Caboose The Ace

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 02:18 PM

^
 
To weaken the Swords of Sanghelios ( who apart from the Storm covenant ) are the biggest threat to the Unsc. ( Despite having an alliance with them ) :)


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