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Yay or Nay for Betrayal?


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29 replies to this topic

Poll: Yay or Nay for Betrayal? (23 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you hate Betrayal?

  1. No. I think it's an important part of the game (7 votes [30.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.43%

  2. Not really. It's ok I guess (2 votes [8.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

  3. I don't love, or hate it (4 votes [17.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.39%

  4. I generally don't like Betrayal (7 votes [30.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.43%

  5. Yes. Betrayal sucks (3 votes [13.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.04%

Should Betrayal return?

  1. Yes (15 votes [65.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 65.22%

  2. Neutral. I don't care if it's gone, or is returning (5 votes [21.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.74%

  3. No (3 votes [13.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.04%

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#1 I_Make_Big_Boom

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 12:43 AM

The first Halo I played on Xbox Live legitimately was Halo: Reach. Around August 2010, or 2011. I had actually made my first XBL Account a few months prior, but that's not important (I played most of the Halos by that time btw).

 

In Halo: Reach's Infection Playlist at that time there was something interesting put into the gameplay: Betrayal. I cannot tell you how many times I've been betrayed by random players in Infection. What's even worse is that you turned into a Zombie after being betrayed (so freaking irritating it's unbelievable). To combat this I stayed away from the other players, and toughed it out on my own. Occasionally I clung to some people if I see they're honorable, and not total pricks from the way they act in the game.

 

Eventually 343 or Bungie (I forget when Bungie splintered away from Halo) decided to remove Betrayal altogether from Infection at the start of 2011, or 2012 (from what I remember). The quality of the matches literally increased overnight because of the lack of "catering" to the immature/troll players.

 

Continuing my run online in Reach, 4, and then MCC I didn't really have any positive experiences with Betrayal in any of those games (Custom Games is an exception). It's the usual bs of people killing you for your Power Weapons, Vehicles, or just you getting trolled. When playing with people I know then I guess it's alright.

 

For Custom Games it's a so-so kind of thing. It's hilarious when you get killed, and when you kill only because you're playing with people you know (usually). Unlike playing in Matchmaking when you're with random people 24/7. And from what I know Betrayal is also a vital component to some gametypes, and maps.

 

To cut to the chase here's my final OP on Betrayal:

  • Betrayal should mostly stay out of Matchmaking altogether, but be kept as a toggle-able option in Custom Games.
  • For the sake of recreating the legacy gameplay for games like Halo 2 in the MCC it should be active for a few Playlists, but not all of them. The same goes for the other games.
  • The Playlists that are Pro-Betrayal, and Anti-Betrayal should be highly favorable towards Anti-Betrayal: kind of like the ratio being 1/4th Betrayal, and 3/4ths Anti-Betrayal.

I don't want to play Team Slayer with the ominous threat of Betrayal looming over my head all the freaking time, but for a Playlist like Action Sack (if it is ever implemented) it would be alright to have it there I guess.

 

Anyway what's your OP?


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#2 Melody

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 12:46 AM

Nay, it's a good concept. But poor usage. :/


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#3 Azaxx

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 12:51 AM

I don't like it, but I want it back.
The reason for this is, that it promotes proper teamplay. Spamming nades without penalty is bad game design, friendly fire should be in because of this. However it must have a harsh penalty system for abusing team killing, as in deranking or bans.


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#4 RedStarRocket91

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:01 AM

For the most part, I think that whether or not friendly fire is on should be based on playlist. I'm a very strong advocate for breaking matchmaking up into Ranked and Social playlists, and for the most part, I think that should serve as a reasonable way of splitting up friendly fire.

 

If I'm playing competitively then yes, friendly fire should absolutely be on. It promotes tactical choices as well as raw aiming ability, thereby increasing the skill gap and making for more interesting decisions: is killing a teammate worth causing the enemy to drop a flag, or to drop a power weapon, or to pull back from an advantageous map position? I also find it makes for more interesting dynamics in terms of grenades. Halo has always suffered from issues with grenade spam, and the sad truth is that most of the time, there isn't really any skill involved, particularly when you can hold four of each grenade type as you can just keep chucking them until you kill whoever you're targeting.

 

This isn't to say that I don't think there's no skill in using grenades - on the contrary, the ability to put a grenade exactly where you want it is something I greatly admire - but that in a lot of fights, things tend to come down to quantity over quality, which isn't something I feel lends itself well to good competitive play. Risk/reward is a cornerstone of good, competitive play, and friendly fire is a good way of showing off player skills and exposing weaknesses, so for me, including it is a definite 'yes'.

 

For social play however, I'd prefer that it stays out. If I'm playing a social playlist, then chances are that I'm just wanting to relax rather than feel under pressure to do well, and so it's much better not to have to worry about accidentally harming teammates. This also makes it much easier to prevent players abusing the system to troll: I can't count the number of times I've had people try to either kill me or weaken me in order to get hold of a Sniper Rifle, or to deliberately try and stand in front of me to prevent me from using it. This is still obviously an issue in competitive play, where player ranks mean that people are more likely to care, but troll accounts tend to be amongst the lower ranks and thus easier to avoid or deal with, meaning it's not such a big concern.

 

One big thing I'd like to see change in the current betrayal system, regardless of whether damage is on and how it's dealt, is removing the ability of players on the same team who've exchanged fire to pick up weapons dropped by the other. This would immediately solve about half of all betrayals, and greatly cut down on the stress of deciding you want to pick up a Sniper Rifle. 343i's stated aim in removing friendly fire in Halo 4 was for this specific reason, and while I can definitely sympathise with players who dislike its removal, as a sniper I can't applaud it enough.


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#5 Composite Armour

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:33 AM

I find betrayal tends to add to the game. It usually forces people to get at least some ability to aim and punishes them for failing to do so.

 

Removing it altogether is a lazy way to go about it. There's nothing wrong with the actual betrayal of teammates, but Halo has always failed to have an effective solution for punishing them. Escalate the punishments, make a distinction between intentional and accidental betrayal and have annoying feedback on the HUD when you shoot an ally and that should decrease the stupid TKing for power weapons.


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#6 Vaulting♥Frog

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:20 AM

This is another reason why I cant stand PvP content. I am not sure I could count high enough to describe how many times I have been betrayed by my own team simply because they could. I have no power weapons, not in their line of fire, not taking a vehicle... absolutely no reason yet they do it anyways. It is not entertaining in the slightest.

 

Personally I would rather they just get rid of PvP period but that will never happen. Splitting up the playlists seems to be the only viable option however trolling will always occur in any playlist, which is why I wont play it in the first place.


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#7 Pbrabbit

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:40 AM

Matching making wise, betrayal is an important aspect to have. But for infection, I do not think it should be in that game type. But for other game types online, with other people, I most definitely think you should have it. Although we all hate it when some betrays us, lets be honest and think back to that one time we betrayed somebody because we said YOLO or something like that. Otherwise, I like that there are no more betrayals.


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#8 BATMAN

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 10:43 AM

I agree mostly with your post, SD.

TKFT's (i'll let that go undefined) suck, but when you're with a group if buddies, betrayal can get pretty hilarious.

Unrelated/related/irrelevant memory: I got booted (and the guy promptly removed me from his friends list) from a custom infection game back in Halo 3 'cause my cousin and I managed to find a tiny nook on the side of a building made out of those giant crates; which just so happened to be out of lunging range and isolated enough for us to hold out for a good five or so minutes before the game quickly ended and receiving an earful of salty bitterness for bein' a "noob" and a camper.

Halo 3... Fun times. I think the betrayal system back then was pretty fun, unless you got peeved enough to TK back.. That usually resulted in a friendly and swift boot.

#9 Drizzy_Dan

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:27 PM

I love team killing. I am a supporter of betrayals and then booting those who betray me enough.


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#10 I_Make_Big_Boom

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:50 PM

I love team killing. I am a supporter of betrayals and then booting those who betray me enough.

 

You monster.


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#11 Melody

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 11:20 PM

I love team killing. I am a supporter of betrayals and then booting those who betray me enough.

People who do that are meanies though.. :( It ruins my game when people do it to me. They don't do it to joke around either, It happens all the time. It's got me upset many times. Most of those people who constantly do it are bullies in my opinion. :( :hide:


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#12 BATMAN

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 11:56 PM

I love team killing. I am a supporter of betrayals and then booting those who betray me enough.



I honestly don't think betrayals are too big of a problem.
Teabagging's a bigger problem. I almost dropped out of the Paintball game because of it (and yet, I won :3).

#13 Ash

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 12:00 AM

People who do that are meanies though.. :( It ruins my game when people do it to me. They don't do it to joke around either, It happens all the time. It's got me upset many times. Most of those people who constantly do it are bullies in my opinion. :( :hide:

 

I know right.. I just wanna play a fun game of halo and not 5 second into a match, it's raining grenades and bullets. ~.~

 

After they do it, it's worse when they t-bag, and there is nothing I can do about it. >.<


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#14 rrhuntington

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 12:08 AM

Betrayal booting as an option should return. Having nothing right now to discourage betrayals that are non-accidental and's purpose is to destroy their own team is ridiculous. Every few games I'm seeing this one dude who just goes on a betrayal spree. I'd much rather the victim be the decider of whether it was an accident, necessary, or on purpose, instead of Mr. Negative killing spree offender. I could see why they don't have Grifball, because without betrayal booting, it would be where the most heinous offenses arise. 

 

Betrayal as a whole could stay.  


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#15 Is not JL

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 08:29 AM

I love team killing. I am a supporter of betrayals and then booting those who betray me enough.

No betrayal no banter.

No banter no fun.

 

No fun no players.

 

No players no money.

 

Take your pick 343.

 

No betrayal or money. Which one is more important?


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#16 UNSC Spartan-II

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 01:42 PM

Betrayal adds more realism to the game, but it's annoying and encourages trolls to really cause trouble. I think we're better off without having it as an option. Say someone's nearing their perfection, you'd have a player on your team come along thinking their funny, and end it for you. If you'd like realistic gameplay, then it should stay on. I'd say giving the player who was betrayed the option to boot the traitor straight away though, we don't need continuous trolling to ruin the game for both an individual player, and the whole team.


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#17 I_Make_Big_Boom

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 05:49 PM

No betrayal no banter.

No banter no fun.

 

No fun no players.

 

No players no money.

 

Take your pick 343.

 

No betrayal or money. Which one is more important?

 

I've played many games of Halo that didn't have Betrayal on, and it was still fun. Husky Raid is a good example.


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#18 BATMAN

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 05:57 PM

God, I hate Husky Raid.

#19 Fishy

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 06:14 PM

God, I hate Husky Raid.

Did someone say hate? Why hate? When you can love! :heart:

 

People who do that are meanies though.. :( It ruins my game when people do it to me. They don't do it to joke around either, It happens all the time. It's got me upset many times. Most of those people who constantly do it are bullies in my opinion. :( :hide:

So you consider me a bully? What if I did it because you hit me first? 

 

I love team killing. I am a supporter of betrayals and then booting those who betray me enough.

This is why we are not friends.



#20 BATMAN

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 06:17 PM

Did someone say hate? Why hate? When you can love! :heart:



What if I love to hate? :)




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